Author Topic: WHY DO SECTARIANS ASK ME TO EXPLAIN QIRAAT?  (Read 1394 times)

Sania Haque

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WHY DO SECTARIANS ASK ME TO EXPLAIN QIRAAT?
« on: December 14, 2020, 12:52:28 PM »
Why is this such a common question by sectarians whenever they are trying to defend their hadiths? Why??? according to Wikipedia :

In Islam, Qira'at (also Qirā'ah) (Arabic: قِراءة‎, lit. 'recitations or readings') are "the different linguistic, lexical, phonetic, morphological and syntactical forms permitted with reciting the Quran".[1] Differences between Qira'at are slight and include differences in stops,[Note 1] vowels,[Note 2] letters,[Note 3] and but also sometimes entire words.[Note 4] (While called 'recitations or readings' or 'verbalizations', the Qira'at are not different ways of reading the same Quranic text, but (slightly) different texts of the Quran.[Note 5] They should not be confused with Tajwid, the rules of pronunciation, intonation, and caesuras of the Quran.)

I still donot get what Qiraat is and how hadiths explain Qiraat and why do these hadithians ask us to explain Qiraat. What does this have to do with following Quran?

Can anyone link me some of the articles and posts from this forum ? Thanm you. Peace ✌️

spodacus

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Re: WHY DO SECTARIANS ASK ME TO EXPLAIN QIRAAT?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2020, 01:09:03 PM »
Salam,

Qur'an 36:69: "We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear."

Most people have reduced the Qur'an to a "book of poetry" with emphasis on only the physical recitation as a way to receive blessings. Hence why so much energy is taken to perfect the physical sounding and timing of the words. Problem is that, truly, the only real way to receive Allah SWT blessing is by UNDERSTANDING the book and LIVING the examples taught. My humble opinion is that all the energy in perfectly reciting the book is a waste of time if you are not also taking in the understanding.

good logic

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Re: WHY DO SECTARIANS ASK ME TO EXPLAIN QIRAAT?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2020, 02:06:34 PM »
Peace Sania Haque..
You ask,quote:
"I still donot get what Qiraat is and how hadiths explain Qiraat and why do these hadithians ask us to explain Qiraat. What does this have to do with following Quran?"
Here is a hadith site explaining "Quiraat"   for your information
https://www.islamic-awareness.org/quran/text/qiraat/hafs


Ask them the following questions:
Do they believe Qoran that we have now is the original one sent to the prophet? Which version exactly? Why?
What difference do the different Qiraat make to the content/meaning/verses of Qoran?
What does Qoran say about hadiths or any other source  besides Qoran  as guide/authority of the religion?

Somehow they are trying to say that Qoran and hadiths have the same origin and believing in one must also lead to believing the other!!!

The stronger argument is that the prophet has left only Qoran after his death or did he leave hadiths as well. They all agree that the prophet did not leave any hadiths to be written down nor was he or his scribes writing them down during his life. But they certainly were writing Qoran.
GOD bless you.
Peace,
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

jkhan

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Re: WHY DO SECTARIANS ASK ME TO EXPLAIN QIRAAT?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2020, 06:50:08 PM »
Why is this such a common question by sectarians whenever they are trying to defend their hadiths? Why??? according to Wikipedia :

In Islam, Qira'at (also Qirā'ah) (Arabic: قِراءة‎, lit. 'recitations or readings') are "the different linguistic, lexical, phonetic, morphological and syntactical forms permitted with reciting the Quran".[1] Differences between Qira'at are slight and include differences in stops,[Note 1] vowels,[Note 2] letters,[Note 3] and but also sometimes entire words.[Note 4] (While called 'recitations or readings' or 'verbalizations', the Qira'at are not different ways of reading the same Quranic text, but (slightly) different texts of the Quran.[Note 5] They should not be confused with Tajwid, the rules of pronunciation, intonation, and caesuras of the Quran.)

I still donot get what Qiraat is and how hadiths explain Qiraat and why do these hadithians ask us to explain Qiraat. What does this have to do with following Quran?

Can anyone link me some of the articles and posts from this forum ? Thanm you. Peace ✌️

Peace again little sister..

Again advice...make it or break it , all up to you...
Advice is, don't go after Hadith mongers answering there questions... Quran advice.. When the ignorant address you say peace and leave them... The followers of hadith are ignorant people...

These two verses astounding .... Hope they may make you ponder..

2:176 "That is because Allah hath revealed the Scripture with the truth. Lo! those who find (a cause of) disagreement in the Scripture are in open schism"

3:93 "All food was lawful to the Children of Israel except what Israel had made unlawful to himself before the Torah was revealed. Say, [O Muhammad], "So bring the Torah and recite it, if you should be truthful."

Points to ponder.. 2:176 True believer cannot disagree in quran.. If does,  then he is in clear division... That is in following book only.. Remember book only... So.. If leave the book and follow another (example hadith) ,  what that could be.. Leave it to you to decide..

3:93 ... Why Prophet should ask them to bring the Torah and recite IF THEY ARE TRUTUFUL... first they can only be truthdul if they follow Torah.. Second.. There is no other hadith book with Torah to follow but only Torah... So it is very evident even for previois community God delivered book only valid and not hadith or Talmud... Prophet could have told bring Torah and Tulmad (hadith)  and recite it to him if you are truthful ... But prophet only said Bring Torah.. Nothing else...

That's why

44:3 "We sent it down during a Blessed Night: for We (ever) wish to warn"

42:7 "And thus We have revealed to you an Arabic Qur'an that you may warn the Mother of Cities [Makkah] and those around it and warn of the Day of Assembly, about which there is no doubt. A party will be in Paradise and a party in the Blaze"

You can't warn with any other thing.. But only Quran

Same Quran is Glad tidings as well...

Even if you happened to or try to answer their questions, they will never be satisfied with your responses.. Coz they are ignorant and most of their hearts are sealed... Just leave them... Let them find their way of God willed. Find your path... Straight path... If you wish straight path.. If you like the path of those who are astray or got the wrath of God then you address those ignorant people...

If you are still unable to come to a conclusion I will give you a way out...

Just take both Quran and Hadith book of your choice(suppose bukhari, Tirmidi or even shia hadith books)..
Then find fault in Quran and the selected hadith book...if your Common sense says that there is errors and hilarious matters in one of the chosen book then select the book which you didn't find mistakes... Let's see in what you end up... If you select hadith book then debate here with your knowledge that hadith books are right... And if you found Quran then bring your thoughts here... If you found both right then explain  why..
Quran itself claim there is no contradiction in it.. 2:2 ... Further says.. If it is from other than Allah then many a contradiction... So find the contradiction and bring them in order to find out... That's why this forum helps.. Coz people debate and give their comments...
If God created this amazing world and then a book claimed it is from Him cannot possibly have nonsensical things.. Right.. So we can just dump it..

There is point in God saying leave the ignorant.. Why didn't God say,  debate with ignorant... So option is given by God with intent... He knows the outcome of having to argue with them..

Answer those who try to seek guidance and not to those whose intent is to mock you..

Note to everyone : if Quran and Hadith both from God it is must all follow both.. Right.. But.. Both Quran and Hadith should not contradict in the first place.. Coz God says we won't find any contradiction in His Quran...  So.. If Hadith is also from GOd then same logic shoukd apply... Coz God's books cannot have contradiction... Why God didn't promise that we preserve hadith while he said we revealed the the Reminder and we preserve it.. If no promise ..then  people are are better than God to preserve something.. Use logic

Wakas

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Re: WHY DO SECTARIANS ASK ME TO EXPLAIN QIRAAT?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2020, 02:27:58 AM »
You've asked this twice now.

Already discussed on the original thread you asked it on:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611206.msg431428#msg431428
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Noon waalqalami

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Re: WHY DO SECTARIANS ASK ME TO EXPLAIN QIRAAT?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2020, 03:17:14 PM »
I still donot get what Qiraat is and how hadiths explain Qiraat and why do these hadithians ask us to explain Qiraat. What does this have to do with following Quran?

Can anyone link me some of the articles and posts from this forum ? Thanm you. Peace ✌️

peace -- they're clueless and mostly parroting old stuff they never researched or studied due to laziness.

Abū ‘Amr Ḥafs ibn Sulaymān ibn al-Mughīrah ibn Abi Dawud al-Asadī al-Kūfī known as Hafs died 796 CE
Abu Sa'id Uthman Ibn Sa‘id al-Qutbi known as Warsh died 812 CE

Hence they were arguing ~150 years after revelation on different variations.
Here are three manuscripts dated about 100+ years prior to Hafs and Warsh.

1. verse numbering different, initialed verses not separate (no affect).
2. misspelled and missing words and other scribe errors e.g.

21:109 توعدون tuaduna/thou promise being; missing wa (no affect توعدن is not a word).

22:2 سكري sukara/intoxicated in oldest manuscripts with alif سكريا sakaran (no affect).

22:3 ومن and from/among الناس the people من who يجدل argued في in/concerning الله the god بغير in other than علم knowledge ويتبع and followed كل every شيطن devil مريد rebellious
22:4 كتب written/decreed عليه upon him انه that he من man/who (word missing?) تولاه befriends him فانه so indeed he يضله misguided him ويهديه and guided him الي to عذب punishment السعير the blaze


Paris, Bibliothèque nationale de France: Arabe 328 (c)
Birmingham fragment Islamic Arabic 1572 (a), originally from the same codex: 568-645 CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/22/vers/4?handschrift=158


Without من man/who – sentence is not clear thus go with majority of old manuscripts.

interesting two pages start at exactly the same word 21:105 يرثها yarithuha/inherits it

Tübingen, Universitätsbibliothek: Ma VI 165
649-675 CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/22/vers/4?handschrift=107


In some verses single letter is crucial e.g. extra meem in 4:12 without which unsolvable.
4:12
 ولكم and for you نصف half ما ma/what ترك left ازوجكم spouses yours ...
 ولهن and for them الربع the fourth مما mimma/from what تركتم left you


Gotthelf-Bergsträßer-Archiv: Kairo, Nationalbibliothek: qāf 47
606-652 CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/4/vers/12?handschrift=73


ade_cool

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Re: WHY DO SECTARIANS ASK ME TO EXPLAIN QIRAAT?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2020, 08:22:37 PM »
Why is this such a common question by sectarians whenever they are trying to defend their hadiths? Why??? according to Wikipedia :

In Islam, Qira'at (also Qirā'ah) (Arabic: قِراءة‎, lit. 'recitations or readings') are "the different linguistic, lexical, phonetic, morphological and syntactical forms permitted with reciting the Quran".[1] Differences between Qira'at are slight and include differences in stops,[Note 1] vowels,[Note 2] letters,[Note 3] and but also sometimes entire words.[Note 4] (While called 'recitations or readings' or 'verbalizations', the Qira'at are not different ways of reading the same Quranic text, but (slightly) different texts of the Quran.[Note 5] They should not be confused with Tajwid, the rules of pronunciation, intonation, and caesuras of the Quran.)

I still donot get what Qiraat is and how hadiths explain Qiraat and why do these hadithians ask us to explain Qiraat. What does this have to do with following Quran?

Can anyone link me some of the articles and posts from this forum ? Thanm you. Peace ✌️

Salam Sania,

I believe Wakas has answered this question in another thread in case you missed it.

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611206.msg431428#msg431428

I have also briefly mentioned my perspective in that thread (not directly related with Qiraat but almost always come up when people try to defend sahih hadith books by arguing rejecting sahih hadith books = rejecting Quran because they were passed down from the very same people)


Wassalam

Noon waalqalami

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Re: WHY DO SECTARIANS ASK ME TO EXPLAIN QIRAAT?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2020, 11:29:42 AM »
21:109 توعدون tuaduna/thou promise being; missing wa (no affect توعدن is not a word).

slight correction it's a word although wrong address (see context) to feminine crowd.

توعدن Arabic Verb تُوعَدْنَ (tūʿadna) (form I)
second-person feminine plural non-past passive indicative of وَعَدَ‎ (waʿada)
second-person feminine plural non-past passive subjunctive of وَعَدَ‎ (waʿada)
second-person feminine plural non-past passive jussive of وَعَدَ‎ (waʿada)

scribe correctly spelled it on prior page 21:103 توعدون tuaduna/thou promise being

Paris, Bibliothèque nationale de France: Arabe 328 (c)
Birmingham fragment Islamic Arabic 1572 (a), originally same codex: 568-645 CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/21/vers/103/handschrift/158


Wakas

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Re: WHY DO SECTARIANS ASK ME TO EXPLAIN QIRAAT?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2020, 01:13:45 AM »
peace Noon,

You need to write a short article with examples discussing how we can use the oldest manuscripts and intra-Quran comparison (i.e. internal Quran checks) to minimise variance/errors. I don't think many have written on that subject so I think people would find it useful.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Sania Haque

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Re: WHY DO SECTARIANS ASK ME TO EXPLAIN QIRAAT?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2020, 02:23:30 AM »
Some days I think I am going crazy. So i posted about Qiraat here by mistake, ( in women's issue instead of general ossue, my God I am just so dumb ) and then I was looking for it in the general issue section and thought i hallucinated writing this post. Why am i like this.