Author Topic: I am going to apostate  (Read 3838 times)

Anoushirvan

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Re: I am going to apostate
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2020, 11:36:46 PM »


But dude elaboration of yours or conventional people's understanding is not what I meant by presenting that example.. (...) Had they slaughtered the cow with initial explanation of command that would have worked out for what purpose the slaughter took place(i didn't ask from you the purpose of slaughter and jews story)

Peace jkhan,

I gave you this lengthy explanation because you missed the purpose of the story of the cow and thus you draw erroneous lessons from it.
Again, it is not a story about people failing to obey God's or messengers' commands, or asking too many questions about those commands.

It is a story about failing to acknowledge that the end of times, a new era then, has come.
(By the way, the story of the cow in surah 2 has close meaning as the story of Mariam in surah 19 when she said "How can I have a boy when no man has been with me; and I have never been unchaste?")

So in short, this story of the cow comforts my viewpoint, not yours.

So when I say that we are now in a new era w.r.t. Qur'an and that we must move forward from it, I'm actually in a similar position as Moses and you are in the position of his people who create difficulties to acknowledge that.
See ?

Regarding verse 5:101 in my opinion it is unrelated to our discussion.
It doesn't mean that we should not ask questions.

It means there exist questions for which we are not always ready to accept the answer, and we must wait until we are psychologically ready to listen to their answer.

jkhan

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Re: I am going to apostate
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2020, 01:33:57 AM »
Peace jkhan,

I gave you this lengthy explanation because you missed the purpose of the story of the cow and thus you draw erroneous lessons from it.
Again, it is not a story about people failing to obey God's or messengers' commands, or asking too many questions about those commands.

It is a story about failing to acknowledge that the end of times, a new era then, has come.
(By the way, the story of the cow in surah 2 has close meaning as the story of Mariam in surah 19 when she said "How can I have a boy when no man has been with me; and I have never been unchaste?")

So in short, this story of the cow comforts my viewpoint, not yours.

So when I say that we are now in a new era w.r.t. Qur'an and that we must move forward from it, I'm actually in a similar position as Moses and you are in the position of his people who create difficulties to acknowledge that.
See ?


Regarding verse 5:101 in my opinion it is unrelated to our discussion.
It doesn't mean that we should not ask questions.

It means there exist questions for which we are not always ready to accept the answer, and we must wait until we are psychologically ready to listen to their answer.

Green... That's fine.. Coz you must accept what you understand...

Blue... Move forward from Quran.. It is your choice...
Sunnah of Allah will never change though generation after generation gone by and we live in a modern era... There must be a reason why God preserved Quran.. If future people can move forward  from it...
Keep learning keep researching... Nothing is over until one get confirmation on anything and be firm on It ..until then path is open..  God bless you

Anoushirvan

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Re: I am going to apostate
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2020, 04:43:28 AM »

Sunnah of Allah will never change though generation after generation gone by and we live in a modern era... There must be a reason why God preserved Quran.. If future people can move forward  from it...


If you have this verse in mind

15:9 Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder (dhikr), and indeed it is We who will preserve it.


then it doesn't say God will preserve Qur'an.

It says that God will preserve the dhikr after having sent it down.

The dhikr is not Qur'an, at least not as text.

Again, "dhikr" is a concept from ancient Jewish and early Christian beliefs that refers to the remembrance of God covenant and fulfillment of the promise of salvation.

So this verse actually says that God will keep His promise of salvation, not that He will keep Qur'an as text.

Granted, somehow Qur'an advocates it revived that "dhikr" through this revelation / sending down.

But confusion between both, Qur'an and dhikr, has led people to make of it a point of honor to know Qur'an by heart or to organize singing contests of Qur'an across centuries, leading to a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, while the actual dhikr, i.e. the true remembrance of the promise of salvation, has been forgotten.

jkhan

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Re: I am going to apostate
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2020, 06:22:47 AM »
If you have this verse in mind

15:9 Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder (dhikr), and indeed it is We who will preserve it.


then it doesn't say God will preserve Qur'an.

It says that God will preserve the dhikr after having sent it down.

The dhikr is not Qur'an, at least not as text.

Again, "dhikr" is a concept from ancient Jewish and early Christian beliefs that refers to the remembrance of God covenant and fulfillment of the promise of salvation.

So this verse actually says that God will keep His promise of salvation, not that He will keep Qur'an as text.

Granted, somehow Qur'an advocates it revived that "dhikr" through this revelation / sending down.

But confusion between both, Qur'an and dhikr, has led people to make of it a point of honor to know Qur'an by heart or to organize singing contests of Qur'an across centuries, leading to a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, while the actual dhikr, i.e. the true remembrance of the promise of salvation, has been forgotten.

Peace..

In short,  this Dhikr comforts my viewpoint and not yours... Lol

Dude. That's a different a different topic and if you want you may open new topic or go through  some old topics already discussed so that you may get what it is probably... Or you can remain where you are..

Al Dhikr for me is Quran .... I don't like to bring any proof to substantiate my claim though I know coz I don't like to debate that in this topic..
God bless you..

nimnimak_11

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Re: I am going to apostate
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2020, 08:18:51 AM »
I dont even know in which category i fall. Quranism doesn't make sense to me. Neither does hadiths. While i fully believe that hadiths are anti Qur'an, this Quran alone is not doing it for me. I am not able to find any firm ground here. There is no stability in Quranism. Yall are open to follow any interpretation of Quran and that is i guess is the negative point of this whole movement. I became Ahle Quran to learn the laws of Allah correctly, but this has distorted my faith more than ever. I feel so disconnected from Allah, my faith is totally gone, it's like I know God exists but my belief in it is waning.  What do i do, i feel like I am losing my mind. I am so confused and nothing is making sense to it. I feel like I am about to apostate. I read Quran but it doesn't do anything for me. I think the only thing that is stopping me is the fear of hell and say of Judgement. Can yall just tell me if i become a deist or monotheist but donot follow any religion ( not even Islam and Quran ) will i go to hell according to Quran ? I am just tired of not finding any answer from Quran. I just feel like the true religion of God should have a clear message that should resonate with the whole mankind. Quran doesn't calls to my soul with some of its verses. I don't get why would God hate any lgbtq+ ( and i am not here to start any discussion on it, on my last post already someone judged me for it and made me feel that i am looking for excuses to transgress against Quran ), i just dont understand it. Yeah we can use the argument that Allah is using it for test then why not make every person a homosexual and then test them ? Why is Allah unfair to some. Why would Allah call himself fair and just and do something like this.
Then comes the fact that Quran is just not at all clear whether we have to take it literally or not. Again my issue is, is there any set of laws given by Allah or not ?
If Allah is clear in his words why most of the messages are unclear .

What is salat ?
Is alcohol forbidden ?
Is hajj obligatory or not ?
Does god forbid all kind of sex except penis-vagina sex or does all kinds of sexual act is permissible between husband and wife.
Is abortion is haram or is it permissible ?
Is the story of Lut forbidding homosexuality or is it condemning raping and oppression ?
Quran tells you to wear hijab and abaya too or Quran only tells you to lower the garments and cover the bosom ?

These are not the only cases where yall disagree with each other. Quranism has confused me more than the hadiths because at least it was apparent that a man made book would be unclear and full of contradictions but why is that we cannot agree at anything when it comes to the book of God ? I am one step away from having a full mental breakdown. The stress is weighing down on me and affecting me physically, mentally and emotionally. I came to this forum to find answers. I am just left with more confusion and questions. I am tired of following something which doesn't makes sense to me. I love God, i believe in him, i just don't believe anymore that Quran is the answer for me. It is my fear of judgement day only that has been keeping me from finally accepting myself as deist and leaving behind all the religion. I just want to know whether a deist is also considered a believer according to Quran, or am I disbeliever for abandoning Quran but still believing in God ?


It doesn't matter if you're reading the Quran or not. What matters is that you are sincere to God. Sincere to a Perfect Existence. Sincere to what you genuinely believe is good. If you don't understand the Quran, don't uphold it. If something good compels you to try to understand it, then respond and try to understand it. If something good compels you to give up on it, then give up on it. Just don't lose sight of reason and a genuine sense of good. You answer to God. God gave you reason and a genuine sense of good. To go against them, is to be unreasonable and evil.

The Quran is a gift. It boosts and raises reverence. It has done more for me than just boost reverence (which is an immense gift in itself). It is the most valuable book I have ever read. If you can draw benefit from it, then you absolutely should. If you can't, then don't try and force anything.

ade_cool

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Re: I am going to apostate
« Reply #75 on: December 27, 2020, 10:32:41 AM »
I already mentioned two in my original post on this thread. One on human embryology and the other on geography. I have only referred him to Google in a bid to get him see there are alternative diverse and contradicting views on the infallibility of Qur'an.

I did try search on google "errors in the qur'an" and I got a lot of links.

It would be helpful if you can simply give the URL that you yourself are convinced that those are errors in Quran (one on human embryology and the other on geography). If the URL is a youtube video and contains a lot of claims, then help by mentioning starting time of the sections that you are convinced (unless you are convinced that all of the claims in the video are true errors in Quran).