Author Topic: Became an ex sunniI. Want to re learn the laws of Allah that Hadiths corrupted  (Read 2385 times)

Sania Haque

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma +0/-0
I became a Quranist 2 months ago. Most yall might know how it is to grow up in a sunni household. Although my parents were not the hardcore sunnis like others ( thank God ) they too, like any other sectarian, never questioned these stupid hadiths. Well, neither did I. My parents never focused on teaching me hadiths, it was always limited to learning arabic and reading Quran. All the other stuffs like praying, charity was taught to me by my parents . Basically i never grew up in a family who  put hadiths to high priority. But whenever some question was raised concerning some weird rules like why i cannot go out without wearing hijab or why i cannot drink water while standing, the only answer i got is " it's from Allah and his Prophet so we have to follow it "
Oddly, i never questioned it and i wasn't the one who was very religious so it didn't matter to me .
Fast forward when i was 13 i got my heartbroken by a 30 year old man ( typical teenage behaviour, nothing happened i was safe ) and then you know what happens when your family keeps telling you that Allah forbids love and we shouldn't question his law since there's always some hidden good in it. Guess what happened to me ? I was infatuated with a guy, got my heart broken and realised my parents were right. From then my journey of learning about my religion started. I went From not wanting to wear hijab to wearing a niqab ( imagine and that too at the age of 13 ). For 2 years, i was the typical orthodox/extremist muslim girl who was okay with hadiths calling us bad omen and even agreed with it lol. Then at 15 i got into novels ( romance novels ) and being the freak i was, i googled whether it's haram to read romance novels or not, found the best extemist site ( yall must be aware of it ) called islamqa. Tried quitting reading but i was addicted. Now i wasn't satisfied with the answer. For the first time i was questioning it then searched up multiple sited and got different ideas and then I realised that there was no one sunni. Not only Islam was divided into sects, the sects also had sects. There wasn't one sunnism that us sunni followed. They were divided into more schools. And then my journey of dissecting hadiths started. I was questioning different books hadiths, finding how people graded the authenticity of hadiths. Not even then did i question the existence of Hadiths. I was merely questioning the authenticity of some of them. Came to one conclusion that if the different fiqh schoole can chose which hadiths to follow and which to reject then so can i. Continued reading romance novels ( explicit romance novels. Cant believe they are the major factor in opening my eyes ). Fast forward to this year, I turned 19. Now i was a very liberal muslim, i still followed the hadiths, but now i was able to recognise which hadith is authentic and which isn't. The issue started when i came across an ig post and how muslims were literally hating on homosexual people. They were mocking them, literally saying how they would love to see them killed. I knew that homosexuality is considered haram in Islam but i didn't know that people were being prosecuted Because of it. That Allah told muslims to prosecute these people. This didn't sound like something a God would say. I mean that's really barbaric to take someone's life away and i also heard many Muslims quoting the verse of Quran " if a person kills an innocent person it's as if he killed the whole humanity " and i couldn't wrap this around my head how the same God who revealed this verse would ask to kill LGBTQ. I mean yes homosexuality is a sin but this sin doesnot affects the other. So why is Allah asking humans to punish it.  I supported the movement of LGBTQ+ i believe they deserve rights and they shouldn't be killed. Guess what we found in hadiths. Prosecution of LGBTQ+ and stoning to death. Now this didn't sit well with me all. This was the time that now I started reading Quran. Imagine for 6 years i never once opened the Quran Because it was ingrained in my mind that this book is only read for earning rewards from Allah and to find duas from it. When i didn't find anything in the Quran that's when i questioned how come hadiths are being given precedence over Quran? Then did more research, came across a post on Quora about Quranist. heard their arguments, agreed with them and left sunnism 2 months ago. Had an argument with a hadithmonger and he asked me how did i read the Quran when there are different Qirrat. Was searching for the answer on any Quranist site. Came across this forum. I have never even used any forum like this ever. Dont know a thing how this works. But i wanted to be a part of a group who share the same beliefs as me.

good logic

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 5498
  • Karma +6/-2
Welcome sister.
Keep strong.
Why bother with hadiths?
I rather read  some light-hearted jokes and sarcastic quotes it is more relaxing!!! example:

I’ve decided I need to quit my job as a personal trainer because I’m not big enough or strong enough.
I’ve just handed in my too weak notice.

Will glass coffins be a success?
Remains to be seen.

I tried to sue the airline for misplacing my luggage…I lost my case.

When does a joke become a Dad joke?
When it’s fully groan.

What do you call a girl with an hourglass figure?
A waist of time.

Why is England the wettest country?
Because the queen has reigned there for 67 years.

Where did Noah keep his bees?
In the Ark hives.

- Hi there, I’m human. What are you?

- If you see me smiling it’s because I’m thinking of doing something bad. If you see me laughing, it’s because I already have.

-  I hate it when I go to hug someone really sexy and my face smashes right into the mirror.

- Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.

On a serious note,keep up with your Qoran study.

GOD bless you.
Peace
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

Wakas

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 11303
  • Karma +14/-2
  • Gender: Male
peace,

Welcome to the forum.

Had an argument with a hadithmonger and he asked me how did i read the Quran when there are different Qirrat.

I've seen this before. This is a more sophisticated argument of Traditional Muslims against those who follow a Quran based islam. Basically they are implying if you reject traditions (or those who passed them down) then how are you able to read The Quran because the qira'at (specific readings of Quran, approx. 7-12 different ones) are also passed down by the same people and are similar to traditions/hadith. i.e. if you reject one you must reject the other, or accept both.

My answer:
Firstly, the earliest manuscripts of Quran were written down without tashkeel/vocalisation, which means there are theoretically different possible readings of it. So technically, to my knowledge, it is not possible to claim recitation A is correct and recitation B is wrong etc. However The Quran contains a robust methodology to determine it's true meanings [see reference]. To my knowledge no qiraat has been run through Quran's internal system to see what results, i.e. which reading is most accurate, if any. Even though the differences in the readings are almost entirely small, doing such an examination would likely result in even less variance.

Secondly, The Quran itself states:
Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it. [15:9]
Note, it says "the reminder" and there is some debate what this could refer to, e.g. the Arabic text of Quran, it's reading/qiraat, or both, or it's message, in the main. Thus, this leaves it open for us to use our faculties to determine it's message to the best of our abilities. For example, if the dominant reading is X then we can use reading X as our starting point, as long as we bear in mind it may not be 100% accurate. This means we are not tied to any particular reading. To claim any particular reading is correct, that it is infallible, is to raise it's level to the level of speaking for God, which is of course unacceptable.

Thirdly, native Arabs regularly read texts without vocalisation/tashkeel, e.g. daily newspapers in Arabic, so they are not told of any specific qiraat for their newspapers yet they are perfectly capable of reading a newspaper and understanding it's message. In other words, specific qiraat are not needed. Sure, they can be helpful, but are not necessary.


If anyone else has more to add, feel free.

Background reading:
http://muslimprophets.com/article.php?aid=64
https://www.free-minds.org/which-quran
2:125 is an interesting example
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org


Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1836
  • Karma +2/-0
If anyone else has more to add, feel free.

peace, hafs and warsh are ~150 years afterwards.

examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qira%27at

Ḥafs   Al-Duri   Ḥafs   Al-Duri   verse
وَيُكَفِّرُ   وَنُكَفِّرُ   and He will remove   and We will remove   Al-Baqara 2:271

use context and cross reference see oldest manuscripts

2:271 ويكفر wayukaffiru/and he removed عنكم about you
8:29  ويكفر wayukaffir/and he removed عنكم about you
48:5  ويكفر wayukaffira/and he removed عنهم about them

Ḥafs and Warsh
يَعْمَلُونَ   تَعْمَلُونَ   you do   they do   Al-Baqara 2:85
2:74, 2:85, 2:140, 2:149, 3:99
 وما and not الله the god بغفل in unawareness عما of what تعملون tamaluna/thou working

            
مَا تَنَزَّلُ   مَا نُنَزِّلُ   We do not send down...   they do not come down...   Al-Ḥijr 15:8
never written “they descended” with leading ya
15:8 ما not ننزل nunazzilu/we descend المليكه the controllers
16:2 ينزل yunazzilu/he descended المليكه the controllers
to write "they" descend, leading ta (group/feminine)
97:4 تنزل tanazzalu/they descend المليكه the controllers


قُل   قَالَ   he said      Say!   Al-Anbiyā' 21:4
the context does not justify he said
21:4 قل say ربي lord mine يعلم knoweth


كَثِيرًا   كَبِيرًا   mighty   multitudinous   Al-Aḥzāb 33:68
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/33/vers/68?handschrift=107
see 11th line from top, last word 33:68 كبيرا kabiran/great of


بِمَا   فَبِمَا   then it is what      it is what   Al-Shura 42:30
in oldest manuscripts written without fa بِمَا bima
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/42/vers/30?handschrift=56
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/42/vers/30?handschrift=377
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/42/vers/30?handschrift=12



نُدْخِلْهُ   يُدْخِلْهُ   He makes him enter   We make him enter   Al-Fatḥ 48:17
4:13,14    يدخله yud'khil'hu/he entered him
48:17    يدخله yud'khil'hu/he entered him ... يعذبه yuʿadhib'hu/he punished him


Layth

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 2841
  • Karma +16/-4
  • Gender: Male
Peace Sania,

Welcome to the forum :)

Most of us here identify as "Muslim" as the Prophet Abraham identified himself (not Quranist). That term was coined by people who could not accept that Islam in its purest form was based on the laws of the Quran - hence they wanted a label to mock its followers..

Quote
Had an argument with a hadithmonger and he asked me how did i read the Quran when there are different Qirrat.

Not sure what the question is implying since the various Qirrat do not differ on the laws of the Quran (you will find there are small pronunciation differences which are highlighted in some books - there is even an article on this site:https://www.free-minds.org/which-quran).

Perhaps you can ask him for more information of the point he is trying to get across.
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

ade_cool

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 209
  • Karma +1/-0
Salam sister Sania,

 :welcome:

Regarding "want to re-learn the laws of Allah that hadiths corrupted", I would say without realizing it, sunnis are committing shirk because they make so many things inviolable based on sahih hadith books (not based on what God sent down).

[6:148] Those who are polytheists will say: “If God wished, we would not have set up partners, nor would have our fathers, nor would we  have made anything inviolable.” Those before them lied in the  same way, until they tasted Our might. Say: “Do you have any  knowledge to bring out to us? You only follow conjecture, you  only guess.”


Some examples:

https://sunnah.com/search?q=left+hand

Narrated Jabir (RA):
The Prophet (ﷺ) said: "Do not eat with the left hand, for the devil eats with the left hand." [Reported by Muslim].


https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah/29/16

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:
Let one of you eat with his right hand and drink with his right hand, and take with his right hand and give with his right hand, for Satan eats with his left hand, drinks with his left hand, gives with his left hand and takes with his left hand.



Quote
Had an argument with a hadithmonger and he asked me how did i read the Quran when there are different Qirrat

Basically he is arguing that by rejecting sahih hadith books, it is implied rejecting Quran because the two were through the same people. I usually will say to them that sahih hadith books were compiled 200 years after the demise of the prophet. So even when imam Bukhari, imam Muslim, and other hadith collectors were still not even a single cell, Quran has been written down and was already available in book form. Whatever imam Bukhari, imam Muslim, etc wrote, is separated from Quran. Why suddenly is it argued that rejecting sahih hadith books = rejecting Quran?


Wassalam,

19_submission

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
I became a Quranist 2 months ago. Most yall might know how it is to grow up in a sunni household. Although my parents were not the hardcore sunnis like others ( thank God ) they too, like any other sectarian, never questioned these stupid hadiths. Well, neither did I. My parents never focused on teaching me hadiths, it was always limited to learning arabic and reading Quran. All the other stuffs like praying, charity was taught to me by my parents . Basically i never grew up in a family who  put hadiths to high priority. But whenever some question was raised concerning some weird rules like why i cannot go out without wearing hijab or why i cannot drink water while standing, the only answer i got is " it's from Allah and his Prophet so we have to follow it "
Oddly, i never questioned it and i wasn't the one who was very religious so it didn't matter to me .
Fast forward when i was 13 i got my heartbroken by a 30 year old man ( typical teenage behaviour, nothing happened i was safe ) and then you know what happens when your family keeps telling you that Allah forbids love and we shouldn't question his law since there's always some hidden good in it. Guess what happened to me ? I was infatuated with a guy, got my heart broken and realised my parents were right. From then my journey of learning about my religion started. I went From not wanting to wear hijab to wearing a niqab ( imagine and that too at the age of 13 ). For 2 years, i was the typical orthodox/extremist muslim girl who was okay with hadiths calling us bad omen and even agreed with it lol. Then at 15 i got into novels ( romance novels ) and being the freak i was, i googled whether it's haram to read romance novels or not, found the best extemist site ( yall must be aware of it ) called islamqa. Tried quitting reading but i was addicted. Now i wasn't satisfied with the answer. For the first time i was questioning it then searched up multiple sited and got different ideas and then I realised that there was no one sunni. Not only Islam was divided into sects, the sects also had sects. There wasn't one sunnism that us sunni followed. They were divided into more schools. And then my journey of dissecting hadiths started. I was questioning different books hadiths, finding how people graded the authenticity of hadiths. Not even then did i question the existence of Hadiths. I was merely questioning the authenticity of some of them. Came to one conclusion that if the different fiqh schoole can chose which hadiths to follow and which to reject then so can i. Continued reading romance novels ( explicit romance novels. Cant believe they are the major factor in opening my eyes ). Fast forward to this year, I turned 19. Now i was a very liberal muslim, i still followed the hadiths, but now i was able to recognise which hadith is authentic and which isn't. The issue started when i came across an ig post and how muslims were literally hating on homosexual people. They were mocking them, literally saying how they would love to see them killed. I knew that homosexuality is considered haram in Islam but i didn't know that people were being prosecuted Because of it. That Allah told muslims to prosecute these people. This didn't sound like something a God would say. I mean that's really barbaric to take someone's life away and i also heard many Muslims quoting the verse of Quran " if a person kills an innocent person it's as if he killed the whole humanity " and i couldn't wrap this around my head how the same God who revealed this verse would ask to kill LGBTQ. I mean yes homosexuality is a sin but this sin doesnot affects the other. So why is Allah asking humans to punish it.  I supported the movement of LGBTQ+ i believe they deserve rights and they shouldn't be killed. Guess what we found in hadiths. Prosecution of LGBTQ+ and stoning to death. Now this didn't sit well with me all. This was the time that now I started reading Quran. Imagine for 6 years i never once opened the Quran Because it was ingrained in my mind that this book is only read for earning rewards from Allah and to find duas from it. When i didn't find anything in the Quran that's when i questioned how come hadiths are being given precedence over Quran? Then did more research, came across a post on Quora about Quranist. heard their arguments, agreed with them and left sunnism 2 months ago. Had an argument with a hadithmonger and he asked me how did i read the Quran when there are different Qirrat. Was searching for the answer on any Quranist site. Came across this forum. I have never even used any forum like this ever. Dont know a thing how this works. But i wanted to be a part of a group who share the same beliefs as me.

Peace be upon you!

Let me start by welcoming you to the path of God - the Almighty, the Merciful. Devoting your religion to God purely and accepting the Holy Quran alone as a source of guidance; such a decision is a wise one! You will most likely face a lot of opposition and go through various tests. However, we must remember to be patient per this verse:

[3:186] You will be tested by means of your money and yourselves, and you will hear much abuse from those who were given the Scripture before you, and from the mushrikeen. If you are patient and reverent, this would be the most resolute behaviour.

If your belief is maintained, till the end of your life; you would have been among the blessed one's. These verses should clarify my words:

[6:116] If you were to obey the majority of those in the earth, they will mislead you away from the path of God. They follow nothing but conjecture; they only guess.

[12:106] The majority of those who believe in God do not do so without committing shirk.

[12:103] The majority of people, no matter how eager you may be, are not believers.

[38:82-83] He said, "By Your majesty, I will lead them all astray, except for Your pure servants among them."

[34:20] Satan has indeed confirmed his thoughts about them to be true, for they followed him except for a group of believers.

[7:47-48] Then when their sight was turned towards the companions of the Fire, they said, "Our Lord, do not place us with the transgressing people." And the companions of the Heights called on men whom they recognised by their features and said, "Your large numbers did not avail you, nor did your arrogance!"


Lastly, you may read this set of articles that I have collected from various Quranic sites and set up to make it easier for the reader to comprehend the religion of Submission (Islam) in stages. Please note that the collection is not yet complete and more information (pages) are to be added, this however, contains a lot of useful information that will insha'Allah help strengthen your faith and help you define Islam. As for the other participants in this conversation, you are also welcome to read it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/11zeftDL60-fHfJXq_MZsSgmYzm2kRiUi/view?usp=sharing

Please note: the pdf (set of articles) contains much valuable information that is entirely supported by Quranic verses, and nothing but the Quran (besides exposing the contradictions in hadith).


Praise be to God, Lord of the Worlds!

Peace,
19_submission

good logic

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 5498
  • Karma +6/-2
May be a summary here will be useful.

We all need to relearn the laws of Allah from Allah Alone.

The Quran has all the details of Allah s deen for our redemption/salvation . It is the last message of Allah to Al Aalameen.

The sunna of Allah is the only authorised sunna to follow. It is contained in the book of Allah. Qoran contains all the words from Allah that we need for our salvation. If all the oceans...The words of Allah will never run out.

 Muslims to Allah should not follow any human words for their salvation. Whether it is hadith or laws or instructions from prophets according to hearsay... All the details  of our salvation is contained in Allah s words in the last message.
 
Allah is the only lawmaker. The only judge and the only authority of the deen.

The sole  duty of the messenger of Allah is to deliver Allah 's  words . The messenger s words are not delivered from Allah,they are his own words. If we follow the messenger s words we are following another authority and ignoring the message(Allah s words) .

Upholding any source of religious law other than Allah s laws in the message is an act of shirk. We are taking on another authority besides Allah. We are undermining Allah s words. We are not really believing Allah.

This is clear in GOD s message to all those sincere believers who have a heart and are listening to the message.

GOD Alone is the issue. GOD Alone is the message. GOD Alone is the way to salvation.

All humanity are invited,the poor and the rich,the educated and the less educated,the simple and the complicated . All we really need is the "simple heart " to want to run to GOD Alone for support and help in our life.

Nothing else other than Allah s message is needed . No other books, hadith or religious,no other humans,no other creations. Only GOD Alone waiting and ready to accept those with a simple and listening heart.

." Allah s message is a call to anyone  who has a heart and wants to listen so that he/she can witness and live the truth with Allah s guidance" .
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

Sania Haque

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma +0/-0
Welcome sister.
Keep strong.
Why bother with hadiths?
I rather read  some light-hearted jokes and sarcastic quotes it is more relaxing!!! example:

I’ve decided I need to quit my job as a personal trainer because I’m not big enough or strong enough.
I’ve just handed in my too weak notice.

Will glass coffins be a success?
Remains to be seen.

I tried to sue the airline for misplacing my luggage…I lost my case.

When does a joke become a Dad joke?
When it’s fully groan.

What do you call a girl with an hourglass figure?
A waist of time.

Why is England the wettest country?
Because the queen has reigned there for 67 years.

Where did Noah keep his bees?
In the Ark hives.

- Hi there, I’m human. What are you?

- If you see me smiling it’s because I’m thinking of doing something bad. If you see me laughing, it’s because I already have.

-  I hate it when I go to hug someone really sexy and my face smashes right into the mirror.

- Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.

On a serious note,keep up with your Qoran study.

GOD bless you.
Peace

Thank you for a warm welcome. 🤭🤭