Author Topic: Most people will go to Hell  (Read 3447 times)

Sarah

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Re: Most people will go to Hell
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2020, 01:56:06 PM »
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For example, traditional Sunnis may 'mislead from God's path' using Hadith, but it doesn't necessarily mean all Sunnis are destined for Hell. It depends on how they lived their lives. The same applies to non-Muslims according to 2:62 and 5:69.
I agree with you here about some things. Even before writing my question, I did not believe every sunni or every jew, christian etc.  would go to hell. It depends on their specific beliefs and how they lived their lives, if they're rejecters after information received, signs, warnings etc.
'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

Sarah

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Re: Most people will go to Hell
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2020, 02:29:02 PM »
@Jafar

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And once you gained the understanding yourself, you will then stepping out from judging... you will then understand and not judge.
Since you're not judging anyone then certainly you will not judge your own self as well...
Since you understand you will then be understood.
Law of reciprocality..

We are taught judging others is wrong because we sometimes misjudge people. But I disagree to a certain extent. If a person is wise enough to know that you shouldn't be friends with just anybody for example, then you know that you have to judge them on their character and how they interact. You can't just be friends with everybody since some people will be unkind, users, abusive, even murderers etc.

I do believe we misjudge people though sometimes. i.e. we jump to conclusions on why person x did something. It is good to try and see it from their perspective. Sometimes we may mistake someone for being a bad person when they're not. We have to be better judges to avoid this as much as possible. However narcissists tend to become narcissists because of their childhood but this is no excuse to mistreat others because even though their childhood shaped their personalities, they KNOW and have a CHOICE in what they're doing when they're mistreating people.

I highly disagree with 'since you understand you will be understood'. Not with narcissists, sociopaths etc. A narcissist wants you to care for them but they will never care for you. Even if they do care, it's not true care since they would pretend to care or only care because they want narcissistic supply from you. This is why you have to judge/ figure out people to see if they are narcissists because if you get caught up with one, they can be highly abusive.

If you don't like the word 'judge' then you can call it discernment. The dictionary definition of discernment is 'the ability to judge well'. There is also a wise way of judging people and a toxic way of judging people. Here is another person who shares my views on judging and the video is titled 'Use Your Judgement Against Narcissists And Toxic Situations':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PISgN6xxDrc

Also, I do not think that sincere Qur'an alone believers, Christians, Jews, Non-believers are playing a game of supremacy if they're in the faith because they believe it's the truth from God instead of because of a need to be right and feed their ego. There is a difference between these two reasons for being a part of a faith.

'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

aqua

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Re: Most people will go to Hell
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2020, 02:47:01 PM »
I agree with you here about some things. Even before writing my question, I did not believe every sunni or every jew, christian etc.  would go to hell. It depends on their specific beliefs and how they lived their lives, if they're rejecters after information received, signs, warnings etc.

God is not so shallow that He would punish people who, despite believing in God and doing good all their lives, simply didn't accept the Qur'an. Please see verse 2:112 which also supports this.

Sarah

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Re: Most people will go to Hell
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2020, 03:26:51 PM »
Even the bible says:
New Living Translation:
'The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?'

'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

Sarah

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Re: Most people will go to Hell
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2020, 03:29:21 PM »
@Aqua

'But no! Whoever submits themselves to Allah and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve.' 2:112

I agree with this verse.
'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

jkhan

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Re: Most people will go to Hell
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2020, 06:11:22 PM »
@Jafar

We are taught judging others is wrong because we sometimes misjudge people. But I disagree to a certain extent. If a person is wise enough to know that you shouldn't be friends with just anybody for example, then you know that you have to judge them on their character and how they interact. You can't just be friends with everybody since some people will be unkind, users, abusive, even murderers etc.

I do believe we misjudge people though sometimes. i.e. we jump to conclusions on why person x did something. It is good to try and see it from their perspective. Sometimes we may mistake someone for being a bad person when they're not. We have to be better judges to avoid this as much as possible. However narcissists tend to become narcissists because of their childhood but this is no excuse to mistreat others because even though their childhood shaped their personalities, they KNOW and have a CHOICE in what they're doing when they're mistreating people.

I highly disagree with 'since you understand you will be understood'. Not with narcissists, sociopaths etc. A narcissist wants you to care for them but they will never care for you. Even if they do care, it's not true care since they would pretend to care or only care because they want narcissistic supply from you. This is why you have to judge/ figure out people to see if they are narcissists because if you get caught up with one, they can be highly abusive.

If you don't like the word 'judge' then you can call it discernment. The dictionary definition of discernment is 'the ability to judge well'. There is also a wise way of judging people and a toxic way of judging people. Here is another person who shares my views on judging and the video is titled 'Use Your Judgement Against Narcissists And Toxic Situations':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PISgN6xxDrc

Also, I do not think that sincere Qur'an alone believers, Christians, Jews, Non-believers are playing a game of supremacy if they're in the faith because they believe it's the truth from God instead of because of a need to be right and feed their ego. There is a difference between these two reasons for being a part of a faith.

@Sara..
Well said within yourself blending personal experiences as well.. I hope I don't JUDGE you wrong here.. We need to judge.. Don't we?

@jafar...
Judging is threshold of life.. Key to go forward.. Without judging you won't be able conclude anything... You sent me a personal message in the recent past requesting me to read and give my feedback.. So,  what is your intention... We are to judge things meticulously in life... For that we need loads of patience, knowledge, impartial attitude, most of all giving priority to truth when it is truth.. But all these one has to personally judge.. God says who is better judge than Him.. So we are supposed to be judges.. Right..
In judging we may choose the right or wrong.. It doesn't matter... As long as your intention is right... No one need to teach to intend.. But if you feel at any point you chose wrong, there is always ways how to make it right.. Ask forgiveness.. Coz our intention was right... On serious matters rather than simple matters, always judge with double verification ... We are human and not perfect and vulnerable to mistakes unintentionally sometimes..

Take the court system... Why the final decision is Judge's... Why he was presented loads of evidences and witnesses from both plaintiff and defendant... And he needs to study them... He is not the one to take one side... So.. In this manner, we are judges in life... So.. We need to be impartial... That can be done only with clean heart...
The one who doesn't judge things, in fact is fool in my understanding... Making a decision without judging is nonsensical... Such will worry in life for certain...

Meanwhile, we don't need to judge whether most people will go to hell or Janna.. It is non of our business...  Just having knowledge about it is enough.. There is nothing for us to judge and decide in this case.. If Creator Says so.. Let's hope He will accomplish what He says... But final decision is of the JUDGE the God..

good logic

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Re: Most people will go to Hell
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2020, 12:24:49 AM »
Peace All.

We humans like to argue and push the blame towards GOD.
If we are arguing that GOD should only create "haven" or..., then why are we creating/releasing conditions of both haven and hell here on earth .
By our choices and conditions we ae subjecting others to a "hell" on earth.
This, in my opinion agrees with GOD s message in Qoran:
Mark Nepo in "the book of awakening" writes:
"The purpose of the human experience is for the Soul to blossom in human form here on earth, rather than finding Heaven on earth or elsewhere, we are asked to release Heaven by living on earth"
Ley me elaborate on this "haven" first ,then move to hell.
Reflect on these verses:
"Whoever disbelieves, disbelieves to the detriment of his own soul, while those who lead a righteous life, do so to strengthen and develop their own souls."

"God invites to the abode of peace, and guides whomever He wills(whoever wants to be guided/straight by his own choice first) in a straight path."

"...Do not keep on corrupting the earth. God does not love the corruptors."

"When an affliction/bad/.. befalls them, they say, "We belong to God, and to Him we are returning."

Why are we not reflecting properly on GOD s words? Is GOD not saying everything we do/project/live by affect us and the others around us?
So why are most of us creating/projecting "hell" on earth for others and question/blame GOD?
Is GOD inviting us to hell?
I would rephrase the title of this thread like this:
All of us have an opportunity to release "HEAVEN" on earth  by living our life on the straight path for us and  give the example/encourage our community/clan/people to  do the same. Then  most people will not need to worry or even contemplate a "HELL".

GOD ,IN HIS MESSAGE ,ONLY INVITES US TO THE ABODE OF PEACE/HEAVEN.
GOD wants us to do the same here on earth by example and hard work and perseverance to stay on the straight path.
Are we ourselves inviting to heaven or hell?
That is the most important question to ask.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
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hawk99

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Re: Most people will go to Hell
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2020, 11:51:39 PM »
@Good Logic

I've experienced a lot of racism and classism in my life which many times has made me lose faith in humanity. I think as a mixed race person it's much more obvious for me to see because I tend to not fit in with either side of my races/ cultures. I know many mixed race people say the same thing whereas people who've always fit in with their own race may not experience it to the same extent since they fit in with many of the same race. I won't go into classism as it is self-explanatory. Many other things have happened such as being bullied for most of my life. I don't think this makes me a hypocrite as I also admit I am not perfect myself. I may be one of those many people who will enter hell as I too am a sinner. I hope not to go there however. I've been cheated out of money I worked hard for. I see more corruption than goodness in humans. I base this on my personal experience. Animals seem a lot more peaceful.

Always remember my sister, for the believer your relationship in this life is with God.
What others say and think is irrelevant.  God has given you the Deen, praise God!
Doesn't matter how you look, your ethnicity, or your class.  You have been given the
best this world has to offer.  Don't be sensitive to insults, those people who bully you
have more weaknesses and sensitivities than you!  So don't take sh** off people give
it back to them.

                                         :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

Jafar

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Re: Most people will go to Hell
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2020, 08:35:04 PM »
@Jafar

We are taught judging others is wrong because we sometimes misjudge people. But I disagree to a certain extent. If a person is wise enough to know that you shouldn't be friends with just anybody for example, then you know that you have to judge them on their character and how they interact. You can't just be friends with everybody since some people will be unkind, users, abusive, even murderers etc.

Where did I say that judging is wrong??

What I said was move BEYOND judging to understanding.

When you met a growling lion you first need to judge / identify the situation.
Based on the situation you take appropriate action, fight / destabilize the lion so it is no longer a threat to you or flee / run for safety or cry for help or stand still? or climb a tree?

Next try to UNDERSTAND WHY the lion is acting as such, maybe he's hungry? he feel threatened by your presence? or other reason?
Put your mind into the lion's point of view and  try to understand him.
And of course it's better if you've been feeling the same emotion as felt by the lion, you will have all the required information / data to understand the lion's behavior within yourself.

Afterwards do you then still think the lion is bad / evil?

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I do believe we misjudge people though sometimes. i.e. we jump to conclusions on why person x did something. It is good to try and see it from their perspective. Sometimes we may mistake someone for being a bad person when they're not. We have to be better judges to avoid this as much as possible. However narcissists tend to become narcissists because of their childhood but this is no excuse to mistreat others because even though their childhood shaped their personalities, they KNOW and have a CHOICE in what they're doing when they're mistreating people.

Correct about the why aspect of narcissist... (or other form of supremacist for that matter)
or should I say 'past experiences' have shaped their personalities to become as such.
Additional questions to ponder:
1. Have you had similar experience as experienced by them during your childhood?
2, When you have, have you made the better choice than them? and not the choice that they choose?
3. Perhaps you did choose the same choice as them and then change that option to a 'better' choice. How did you do that? What makes you change the action?
4. Share that to others...
Even thinking along those questions have made you understand better... and less judgemental...

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I highly disagree with 'since you understand you will be understood'.

It's the law of reciprocity, what goes around comes around which gives birth to recommendation of treat others as you would like to be treated. My recommendation mentioned above shall make you put your mind and perspective into their shoes and can decide better on the proper treatment as you would like to be treated, because you have shift your perspective to 'them'.

Which one that you prefer others to do to you? Judging you? or understand you?
No right or wrong.. it's your own choice....

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Also, I do not think that sincere Qur'an alone believers, Christians, Jews, Non-believers are playing a game of supremacy if they're in the faith because they believe it's the truth from God instead of because of a need to be right and feed their ego. There is a difference between these two reasons for being a part of a faith.

You're right about mentioning the 'ego', because that's where it came from.

The difference is merely on the 'scale'... the context is the same.
The feeling of 'above others' is the food that the ego need and she never feel satisfied always hungry for more.
And also the consequences of putting something on the pedestal, as highlighted by Hans Wilhelm on the video that I've shared to you earlier.

My recommended action on series of questioning above, shall temporarily shift 'you' from your own ego and try to understand the 'other's ego.

Next of course is try to meet your own ego and try to  disassociate / dis-identify yourself from her.
But it's more difficult than trying to understand other ego's perspective... thus first thing first.. the above set of questioning is easier but a good exercise before meeting your own ego which means: facing your own fear, facing your own hatred, facing your own sadness..

Sarah

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Re: Most people will go to Hell
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2020, 01:37:54 PM »
Peace

I thought maybe I got the wrong impression about most people going to hell but from reading the Qur'an, verses such as these are common:

'[So it was], until when Our command came and the oven overflowed, We said, "Load upon the ship of each [creature] two mates and your family, except those about whom the word has preceded, and [include] whoever has believed." But none had believed with him, except a few.' (11:40)

Also, if I remember correctly, I think the Qur'anic translation I read literally stated that most will enter hell. However I am not sure. I guess I'll have to double check it. It would actually be great if most do not enter hell even if 'a lot' of people will.

'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'