Bible is the best written book there is. It’s not the quran

[Ervin]

I have copied the following post from the other section of this forum, also written by me and I am going to paste it here:

Ok the following is a copy:

Hi everyone. I have been on these forum in the past and also on many other forums of different so called religions and different so called spiritual teachings. I have studied the quran same as you people do. So I sort of knew the quran pretty well and I now it know, probably not as well as I knew it in the past, but I do know it.

Anyway, in the quran it’s written the following:

 Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all their strength in aiding one another.’ } The Quran 17:88

The above verse is not true. Read the Bible for yourself, both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Read the full book of Job or let’s say the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John and then read the quran and it will hopefully become obvious that the quran is nowhere as well written as the bible. Some say quran is so well written it’s a miracle, that’s not true, Bible is written so well it’s a miracle.

I am not trying to offend any of you people, I am just trying to relate to you you what I know to be the Truth about Our Heavenly Father and His Only Beggoten Son Jesus Christ Our Lord And Saviour.

Thanks

[shukri]

Anyway, in the quran it’s written the following:

Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all their strength in aiding one another.’ } The Quran 17:88

The above verse is not true.

Nope! The verse is very true.
Why? Because of miracle-19 (AQ 74:30)

Now we use AL-Muzzammil Method (https://al-muzzammil.com/relevance_miracle/19_based_calc.html) to see the connection of miracle-19 and verse 17:88...

74:30 Over it is nineteen ... (miracle-19)
17:88 Say, "If all the humans and all the jinns banded together in order to produce a Quran like this, they could never produce anything like it, no matter how much assistance they lent one another."
--> (17+88) + (74+30) = 209 = 11 x 19
Position 1 (Scenario Described)
Level 2 (Related to righteousness)
(Indication: The verse 17:88 is inter-related to verse 74:30)

The proof: https://sites.google.com/site/evidenceofgod/quran/appendices/1-one-of-the-great-miracles

The challenge:
74:30 Over it is nineteen.
17:88 Say, "If all the humans and all the jinns banded together in order to produce a Quran like this, they could never produce anything like it, no matter how much assistance they lent one another." 
2:23 If you have any doubt regarding what we revealed to our servant, then produce one sura like these, and call upon your own witnesses against God, if you are truthful.
--> (23) (88) (30) = 12570 x 19
Position 0 (Wild Card ... All position 1 to 9 applicable)
Level 5 (Detailing Information) 

http://www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/bp2/BeyondProbability_TheKey_AlFatehah.pdf? 
https://sites.google.com/site/evidenceofgod/math-miracle/19/the-quranic-challenge
http://www.masjidtucson.org/downloads/bp.pdf/

Thank you.

[Wakas]

Is The Bible you are referring to this one:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/errors_mistakes_bible.htm

?

[shukri]

Bro Wakas,

You have "Karma +13/-2" ... what does it means?

[good logic]

The Bible is not "one book". It is a collection of many"books"  that existed from Early Judaism through to  Christianity .
The bible may contain a mixture of some  scripture (Torah) and some (Injil) and other Men s books (claimed to be inspired by GOD) and history..
 All  one can say about the bible is :
Study the content and use  your own understanding,logic and knowledge to decipher GOD s word from men s words . If one is using the criteria that GOD s words are true and perfect, then there should be no contradictions or clear errors.
However some statements,chapters/books.. in the bible may contain GOD s words even if others do not,unless one finds errors in every statement,chapter and book of the bible.
If one believes the Qoran is GOD s words ,they should do the same with the contents.
GOD has clearly indicated in Qoran that Torah and Injil were from GOD. That is not to say it is the present bible.But remnants/parts of them  may be in the bible.
GOD also instructs the Jews and Christians to follow GOD s words in the Torah and Injil respectively. So they must exist with what they have/call as their scripture. GOD is precise and says "only what GOD sent down to them",hence the need to check them out..
 
Coming back to  Ervin s point that the bible is better written than Qoran:
1- Nowhere do we find ,in the bible that GOD sent "the bible we have" as a full book of scripture".
2- If it contains GOD s words"some scripture" in it , then where is the problem with what GOD is saying in Qoran?

All GOD is saying in Qoran "n o one can produce scripture-In this case Qoran_" and not make some kind of contradiction/error...That can apply to all GOD s words if one uses the criteria and logic that GOD does not do errors/contradictions and knows everything and it is impossible for man to talk/know about the creation, the realm of GOD, the unseen etc...
It thereofore stands to reason that all words must be checked to "distinguish the true from the false" and GOD s words are and always will be TRUE AND PERFECT".
GOD bless.
Peace.

[Wakas]

Bro Wakas,

You have "Karma +13/-2" ... what does it means?

People can vote on your posts, e.g. applaud/+ve   or   smite/-ve. You are seeing the accumulated "score".

It doesn't really mean anything. A quirk of the forum software.

[shukri]

People can vote on your posts, e.g. applaud/+ve   or   smite/-ve. You are seeing the accumulated "score".

It doesn't really mean anything. A quirk of the forum software.

Thanks bro for your explanation!

[Ervin]

Following is a copy from the other section of this forum posted by me:

I’ll post some verses from the Bible that are good to know:

 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

14:6: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

2 Timothy 3:16: All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness

1:7: The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

book of Exodus 20: Exodus 20:1-20

20Then God spoke all these words: 2I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; 3you shall have no other gods before me. 4You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, 6but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments. 7You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

Thanks

[Bikrun]

Salam,

I dont really understand what you mean by "well writen", but if you mean it in a traditional hermeneutical way, I would just tell you that you are reading translations, and specially in some cases,  higly enriched meta texts. For example, the so called Gospels (which I do not personally believe is the "injeel") were writen in Helenistic Greek. Well, the Gospels are full of grammar mistakes. There is few space to refute this since Greek had clear and very useful grammar books centuries before.

Now let's come to the Quran. Of course you can have any opinion and I welcome it as I think exactly the same... then i realize that Quran is not a "book" to read, but a book to understand. That is why forums like this do exist, because we all try to understand. It rises more questions than answers and it shakes your mind every single second for good or bad, as you want. In my opinion, Gospels do not, they just tell you a story as they are human writen (remember the epistoles).

when you get to understand that you do not "read" the Quran, some verses explain you that they are not to be read in the (lets say) "traditional" way, but there is some kind of inter and intra text inherence not found in any other of the books you mentioned.

My point is that your question is pointless. Would you say that something is less beautiful just because yo cant see it?

[Jafar]

Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all their strength in aiding one another.’ } The Quran 17:88

I sometimes wondered the Quran author's psyche condition when he penned out that sentence.
#pride #mybook #isthebest #nobodycanbeatme #quranpride

The above verse is not true. Read the Bible for yourself, both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Read the full book of Job or let’s say the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John and then read the quran and it will hopefully become obvious that the quran is nowhere as well written as the bible. Some say quran is so well written it’s a miracle, that’s not true, Bible is written so well it’s a miracle.

And I wonder what is actually Jesus own opinion regarding the matter?

"The greatest among you shall be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."
-- Jesus, as reported by Matt 23:12


Below is a wonderful ancient Chinese poem regarding humility as a key virtue..

ALL things in Nature work silently.
They come into being and possess nothing.
They fulfil their functions and make no claim.

When merit has been achieved, do not take it to yourself;
for if you do not take it to yourself, it shall never be taken from you.

Follow diligently the Way in your own heart,
But make no display of it to the world.
Keep behind, and you shall be put in front;
Keep out, and you shall be kept in.
Goodness strives not, and therefore it is not rebuked.

He that humbles himself shall be preserved the entire.
He that bends shall be made straight.
He that is empty shall be filled.
He that is worn out shall be renewed.
He who has little shall succeed.
He who has much shall go astray.

Therefore the Sage embraces Unity,
And it is a model for all under Heaven.
He is free from self-display, therefore he shines forth;
He is free from self-assertion, therefore he is distinguished;
He is free from self-glorification, therefore he has merit;
He is free from self-exaltation, therefore he rises superior to all.

Thus when the best leader’s work is done the people say, ‘We did it ourselves.'"

-- Lao Tse