Author Topic: Will of the god or will of the man?  (Read 2231 times)

muqeem

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Will of the god or will of the man?
« on: September 04, 2020, 08:02:11 PM »
Hi, I'm new to the forum, came across free-minds website recently while started learning quran, a lot of things dont make any sense as I'm mostly ignorant of the language of quran, I try to make sense whatever I understand, in the following verse and many others like it, does god is saying He guides those who want guidance or does he saying He guides those whomever He wishes?

قل لله المشرق والمغرب يهدي من يشاء إلى صراط مستقيم

the way I made sense of it is: "all directions go toward god but whomever wants a straight path will be guided towards it"

peace

Jafar

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Re: Will of the god or will of the man?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2020, 08:53:08 PM »
Yes all path lead to God in the end.

Similitude is like hiking, all path lead to the top.
And there are many path (in this case maybe trillions or zillions in number) that eventually lead to the top.
There are path which seems like narrow path but actually it's the easiest and fastest path to the top.
There are path which seems like a wide path but actually it's one of the challenging path to the top and took longer time.
And anything in between.
The path that one choose will be the path that matches one's preference and liking.
But all in the end shall lead to the top.

Thus there is actually no 'good' or 'bad' path, as good and bad are different for everyone, all in accordance to one's taste and preference. A path that is considered good by some might be considered as bad by others and vice versa.

So actually God guides everyone, each to their own liking, taste and preference.



muqeem

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Re: Will of the god or will of the man?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2020, 09:11:01 PM »
Yes all path lead to God in the end.

Similitude is like hiking, all path lead to the top.
And there are many path (in this case maybe trillions or zillions in number) that eventually lead to the top.
There are path which seems like narrow path but actually it's the easiest and fastest path to the top.
There are path which seems like a wide path but actually it's one of the challenging path to the top and took longer time.
And anything in between.
The path that one choose will be the path that matches one's preference and liking.
But all in the end shall lead to the top.

Thus there is actually no 'good' or 'bad' path, as good and bad are different for everyone, all in accordance to one's taste and preference. A path that is considered good by some might be considered as bad by others and vice versa.

So actually God guides everyone, each to their own liking, taste and preference.

hi, yes that makes sense to me

javed1

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Re: Will of the god or will of the man?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2020, 02:41:35 AM »
Peace.
This question is for Jafar.
What about the one who says there is No God.
Regards

Jafar

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Re: Will of the god or will of the man?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2020, 08:27:25 AM »
Peace.
This question is for Jafar.
What about the one who says there is No God.
Regards

No exception, everyone (actually everything) is included.

Both who says there is God and there is no God will be amazed, by their own 'mistakes' (of perception).
As through mistakes they will learn.

One will realized the existence of the one infinite creator when they realized their own non-existence.
There is actually "No Thing" there is only "Everything".

“If you realize that all things change, there is nothing you will try to hold on to. If you are not afraid of dying, there is nothing you cannot achieve.”
-- Lao Tse

Nothing you will try to hold on to, not even to your own identity, ego or anything you're associating yourself with (your group, your religion, your holy books, your nationality, your home, your wealth, your favorite football club, your avatar in this forum etc..).

A longer story from Buddhist tradition..

"Once upon a time a Bodhisatva — an Enlightenment Being — was born into a high class family in northern India. When he grew up he gave up the ordinary desires of the everyday world and became a holy man. He went to the Himalayan Mountains where 500 other holy men became his followers.

He meditated throughout his long life. He gained supernatural powers — like flying through the air and understanding people's thoughts without their speaking. These special powers impressed his 500 followers greatly.
One rainy season, the chief follower took 250 of the holy men into the hill country villages to collect salt and other necessities. It just so happened that this was the time when the master was about to die. The 250 who were still by his side realized this. So they asked him, "Oh most holy one, in your long life practicing goodness and meditation, what was your greatest achievement?"

Having difficulty speaking as he was dying, the last words of the Enlightenment Being were, "No Thing."  "

tutti_frutti

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Re: Will of the god or will of the man?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2020, 10:34:25 AM »
salam

we will all return to The God, no exception

those who followed the guidance sent by The God and submitted willingly are, with His permission and if He accepts, on the path that leads to His mercy and forgiveness

those who disobeyed and disbelieved are on the path to His wrath (very very very dangerous path)

there is just The God, and none else. my understanding from Quran He created us to worship Him.
life and death (this world) was created to test us
then i understand The God will reward the good doers of whom He wants and punish the evil doers.

how to obey Him? He detailed everything for us in the Quran.

i dont undertand why people make it complicated and keep dwelling in philosophical and “spiritual” matters

we are given guidance, hope, and warning by The God in the Quran.

we obey and follow His guidance...hope for His mercy if He wants to bestow it upon us ...

we disobey and follow satan ...big big big danger for us

peace

javed1

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Re: Will of the god or will of the man?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2020, 12:02:51 PM »
Peace
Thank you very much Jafar for your reply.I really appreciate your explanation but I have a few more concerns/questions.Your  thought process will then do away from a from sin and punishment,from a moral law, in fact from any morality.What would be the compulsion to do good.Furthermore, an extension of this thought process leads to the invariable conclusion that everything is God.Then we are only a short step away from seeing God in everything and start worshipping anything we wish including stones and animals.I think theistic religions distinguish between "Everything is God" and  "Everything is God's." I can't quote from the quran because there is no divine book in your thought process .Please let me know your thoughts.
Regards
javed

Jafar

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Re: Will of the god or will of the man?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2020, 08:49:38 PM »
Peace
Thank you very much Jafar for your reply.I really appreciate your explanation but I have a few more concerns/questions.Your  thought process will then do away from a from sin and punishment,from a moral law,
Exactly.. it will do away from judging and start to move towards understanding.

Quote
What would be the compulsion to do good.
Try it, have you done anything good? how does that makes you?
Or try the reverse, makes all the things inside of you good and sweet, what kind of action that you would like to do.

Feel free to try the opposite as well, makes all the things inside of you vile and bitter. (fear, anger, sadness, envy, hate) what kind of action that you would like to do.

Quote
Furthermore, an extension of this thought process leads to the invariable conclusion that everything is God.Then we are only a short step away from seeing God in everything and start worshipping anything we wish including stones and animals.

Exactly.. that's the reason WHY there is only one God in the first place.
There is no my God, his/her God, their God, our God, your God there is only God.

And can you define 'worshiping'? What is it?

Quote
I think theistic religions distinguish between "Everything is God" and  "Everything is God's." I can't quote from the quran because there is no divine book in your thought process .

Exactly..

Religion thought process is the thought process of SEPARATION.
The opposite of SEPARATION is UNITY.

The only reason why 'religion' came up with the dogma there is a 'divine' things (books ,people, statue, places whatever) is to make a DISTINCTION. A 'divine' book is created in order to levitate it's status above other books. This book is 'divine' other books are 'non-divine', usually they use the label 'man made'.

That's why usually religion enforce a belief that there is only ONE of those things.
This is the ONLY divine book the other books are not divine.
It was provided to give a sense of SPECIALTY or SUPERIORITY.
We are different than them. We are DISTINCT from them. because we have divine books, people, statue, places whatever and they do not.

That's why also religion is always go against the thought process in everything is divine or everything is in unity.
And also oddly against the thought process that everything is created by God in the first place, as that also goes against the objective of making a distinction.
With such thought process no distinction is possible, no differentiation between us and them is possible.

In reality you are 'more divine' relatively compared to merely books.
Books doesn't have any awareness and you do.
But don't believe me on this, seek it out yourselves, you (and so does everything else) have direct connection to the one infinite creator, just ask and it shall be answered.

Like mentioned before, we learned through mistakes, the more mistakes within ourselves we're able to recognize the faster our process of learning will be.
But that requires something within us.
That requires us to shed our pride as PRIDE REQUIRES A DISTINCTION in order to exist.
With pride there is no way that I can make a mistake, mistakes is the domain of others but not me, because I'm special not like others, because I'm distinct from others.

Until you realize that the thing that you call "I" actually do not exist...





good logic

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Re: Will of the god or will of the man?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2020, 02:00:03 AM »
Peace.
Careful study about religion has concluded for me other religions that are hidden like:
Higher consciousness.
Higher consciousness is the consciousness of a god or "the part of the human mind that is capable of transcending animal instincts". While the concept has ancient roots, dating back to the Bhagavad Gita and Indian Vedas, it was significantly developed in German idealism, and is a central notion in contemporary popular spirituality, including the New Age movement.

Christ consciousness:
The basic premise of mysticism is that man can, within himself, transcend physical existence and experience his own goodness as being “one” with the universe, being a god, or existing on whatever higher plane he chooses to believe in. The name of Jesus is merely used as a prop in this latest version of the same idea.
Everyone is god.
We may also come to see that all reality is really one consciousness, i.e. God, and that we are that one consciousness. This is the truth behind the position called Idealism which stands in opposition to the idea of Materialism, and its ultimate proof derives from the direct experience of being God.

...etc.
All these are just men s interpretations of what they think they understand  ".who god is".
GOD however ,knowing all these religions will spring up  keeps renewing His message. Only GOD knows  who and what He is. Only His words explain it the best.
GOD s simple message is:
Do not follow others ,ponder His message and ask His explanation. Deal directly through GOD s words and message.

Criminality and wickedness of man requires the justice of GOD Alone. Man s justice is imperfect and mostly bias. Accountability to GOD is the only just and fair judgement. Man s religions(some) do away with responsibility and accountability.

GOD bless.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Jafar

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Re: Will of the god or will of the man?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2020, 02:48:56 AM »
It's wiser not to be 'entrapped' in label or merely believing something just because somebody or some book said so.
The same things happened within an umbrella called / labelled "Religion" not all Religion actually a religion.
Which then beg the fundamental question what is religion?

Seek it yourselves, know the essence / characteristics of things and then you will know and not merely believe.

Because this universe seems to be based on contrast.
On everything there's an opposite contrast.
And it's created as such for a purpose.

Separation <-> Unity
Pride <-> Humility
Fear <-> Courage
Hate <-> Love
Rage <-> Calmness
Harming <-> Healing
Dominating <-> Accommodating
Gaining <-> Sharing
Egocentric <-> Empathy
Judging <-> Understanding
Bigotry <-> Tolerance
etc..

Some might be resonated more towards Separation, Pride, Domination, Judging and Bigotry and some might resonated towards the opposite. But that's just the way it is. And everything exist only because the one infinite creator created as such.
In the end all paths will lead to the top, to the one infinite creator.

That's why; seek out your own path, nobody shared the exact same path.
When you're realized that the path that you walked through now is not comfortable for you, then find another path.
Make sure the path that you walked is the path that you're truly resonating with.
At the very least be authentic with yourselves.

Remember that everyone actually have direct connection to the one infinite creator, just ask and you shall receive.
Don't let fear be in the way for you to realize and make use of such privileges.
Whatever path that you walked on, the one infinite creator is always there to guide you all the way.

"The enemy is fear, we think it's hate, but it's fear"
-- Gandhi

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but yourselves can free your own minds, have no fear for atomic energy, cause none of them can stopped the time".
-- Bob Marley: Redemption Song