Author Topic: The best arguments against authority of Hadith  (Read 1289 times)

Asifzaheer

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The best arguments against authority of Hadith
« on: August 19, 2020, 11:50:52 AM »
salaam all,
In my opinion the best argument against Hadith authenticity is that the MOST MOST MOST mutwattir(famous) hadith,the last khutba of Prophet Muhammad(s) has 3 different version.No other Hadith can be as famous as this was yet it has 3 different story.
so bro n sis, according to u what r other best logical arguments for rejecting hadiths.

thanx

Jafar

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Re: The best arguments against authority of Hadith
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2020, 12:22:17 PM »
A counter argument should not be proposed against a source.
A counter argument should be proposed against the argument itself, regardless of the source.

If there's a 3 version of the same story it's a counter argument against 1 version of the same story. It's not an argument against a book or somebody who said that there is only one version of the same story.

The argument of 3 version of the same story is only valid as counter argument for 1 version of the same story, regardless who stated that there's only 1 version of the same story.

Another Example:

Among other things: Einsten stated the universe is static.

The counter argument with evidence that the universe is dynamic, expanding and shrinking on some area (black holes) is not an argument against Einstein, it is a counter argument against the argument of "universe is static".

It happened to be that Einstein was among those who argued that the universe is static.
It cannot be used as counter argument to other statement made by Einstein (such as regarding the relativity of space and time) and/or it should be viewed as an effort to 'de-authorize' or 'attack' Einstein.


This entire fiasco is caused due to "putting something into a pedestal".
Or in other words 'idolization'.

Just because "my idol" stated X, doesn't mean that X is true.
But sadly... for many people it does...
And anyone who stated that X is not true is a threat to the holiness / authority / perfection of my idol.
Thus any threat to my idol is a threat to me, and must be eliminated.

Asifzaheer

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Re: The best arguments against authority of Hadith
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2020, 01:06:06 PM »
yeahRight,If einstein's one statement is wrong then we can't say that Einstein's rest other statements are also wrong.
But in case of book of God,one statement is wrong,then it can't be book of God even the rest 99 statements r ultimate truth. same in the case of book which claims its 100% authentic sayings of the prophet.By definition,A prophet cant say a contradictory/wrong/false statement bcz whatever he is preaching in the name of religion he is getting it directly from God.. If there is even one proven contradictory statement in the Book claiming to be 100% authentic saying of prophet then Either the book is false or the prophet is fraud.

tutti_frutti

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Re: The best arguments against authority of Hadith
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2020, 07:32:46 PM »
salam

my understanding of some arguments against hadith include:

we are warned against them in the Quran

they contradict the Quran (example how to perform wudu, how to pray, or about there being a compulsion in religion while we are told in Quran NO compulsion, etc etc)

they contradict themselves

they are full of none sense and literally funniest things

if The God wanted us to know the things in hadith ... why not include them in Quran??

we have been given the guidance, Quran, by The God ... why seek other than The God as a Guide and Judge?

...

peace


Jafar

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Re: The best arguments against authority of Hadith
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2020, 07:52:52 AM »
yeahRight,If einstein's one statement is wrong then we can't say that Einstein's rest other statements are also wrong.

Exactly, and such approach is named as objectivity.

Quote
But in case of book of God,one statement is wrong,then it can't be book of God even the rest 99 statements r ultimate truth.

Is it OR is it not that everything created by God?

Quote
same in the case of book which claims its 100% authentic sayings of the prophet.By definition,A prophet cant say a contradictory/wrong/false statement bcz whatever he is preaching in the name of religion he is getting it directly from God..

Is it OR is it not that 'prophet' is merely a title / label being put on a human?

And I don't think that Muhammad originally preaching 'religion', based on a pattern that I've observed a religion was usually being setup by somebody else after the proposed founder or main figure has died.

 

imrankhawaja

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Re: The best arguments against authority of Hadith
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2020, 09:26:10 AM »

And I don't think that Muhammad originally preaching 'religion', based on a pattern that I've observed a religion was usually being setup by somebody else after the proposed founder or main figure has died.

Agreed,
The history of almost all of the previous people indicating that type of approach.

Thats what happened with almost every organised religions from past till present.

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: The best arguments against authority of Hadith
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2020, 11:13:08 AM »
we have been given the guidance, Quran, by The God ... why seek other than The God as a Guide and Judge?
Very funny... Tell me how Quran guides you... If you had found guidance in Quran then what are you doing here?
Well, this is not only you, it is everyone at this forum including myself. We read something in Quran. But we do not understand it fully or find contradictions in translations/interpretations. We are mostly confused so we talk to others and try to see if our understanding is right or wrong. People give examples of science, philisophy, grammar, history, human rights etc. etc. and we get convinced if it suits us otherwise, we usually leave the topic and go for another point of discussion. And we think that we are guided.
Really, it makes me laughing and sometimes, I feel ashamed of myself. We simply do not trust the Quran and do not believe in our own eyes, hearing or intellect.
Well, after all it is Allah who guides or misguides (through/by the Quran) to whomever He wills.
Is there any single person who has found guidance from Quran only? No one at all!
Peace!

good logic

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Re: The best arguments against authority of Hadith
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2020, 05:18:09 AM »
Peace : TellMeTheTruth
This can only stay as a question,quote:

"Is there any single person who has found guidance from Quran only? No one at all!"

Your answer to it is an assumption. You cannot possibly know . All of us can only speak for ourselves only. we cannot know the innermost thoughts of others nor are we given inspiration or information about who is guided from Qoran.

Unless of course GOD is communicating with you  who is guided by Qoran.
As for being here for guidance from others like you think, Qoran disagrees with you,since it clearly states guidance can only be from GOD Alone.
Of course this also means Qoran is only there as a tool/instruction. GOD Alone does the guiding.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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hawk99

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Re: The best arguments against authority of Hadith
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2020, 07:26:32 AM »
salam

my understanding of some arguments against hadith include:

we are warned against them in the Quran

they contradict the Quran (example how to perform wudu, how to pray, or about there being a compulsion in religion while we are told in Quran NO compulsion, etc etc)

they contradict themselves

they are full of none sense and literally funniest things

if The God wanted us to know the things in hadith ... why not include them in Quran??

we have been given the guidance, Quran, by The God ... why seek other than The God as a Guide and Judge?

...

peace

Well said.

Question:

What verses from Quran instructs us to follow Hadith?   :hmm
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: The best arguments against authority of Hadith
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2020, 09:46:14 AM »
Peace : TellMeTheTruth
This can only stay as a question,quote:

"Is there any single person who has found guidance from Quran only? No one at all!"

Your answer to it is an assumption. You cannot possibly know . All of us can only speak for ourselves only. we cannot know the innermost thoughts of others nor are we given inspiration or information about who is guided from Qoran.

Unless of course GOD is communicating with you  who is guided by Qoran.
As for being here for guidance from others like you think, Qoran disagrees with you,since it clearly states guidance can only be from GOD Alone.
Of course this also means Qoran is only there as a tool/instruction. GOD Alone does the guiding.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Salam brother!
You are right that it is only Allah who guides. Let me change the question. Is there any single person who claims that he/she is guided by Allah alone? If yes, then how¿
Peace!