When were we dead as per 2:28?

[seekingtruth1111]

2:28 How can you reject God when you were dead and He brought you to life? Then He makes you die, then He brings you to life, then to Him you return.

How can we be dead before living? Which comes first death or life?

[Layth]

Salam,

Your question is spot on. According to the Qur'an, we have existed before this life, therefore, we had died in that life and became alive in this:

7:172   And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves: "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.

[jkhan]

2:28 How can you reject God when you were dead and He brought you to life? Then He makes you die, then He brings you to life, then to Him you return.

How can we be dead before living? Which comes first death or life?

Peace..

This topic is very interesting...  But I can furnish you mere my understanding but within Quran..

I think this particular verse targeting only the rejectors and those who end up in hell ultimately ...  It seems they are given life with the mercy of God twice...  But even the two opportunities they got were in vain.. They never reform it seems.. 

Roughly saying like this.. My opinion.. A disbeliever got life somewhere in the past.. Suppose 1500 years back and he got another chance in 2000... But he failed in his both occasions...
Below verse is an ideal example for that.. Here these people are in hell for sure this time.. Coz it is after day of ressurection and judgment is executed.. But they never lost their previous habit.. They still ask a way out for a third chance... That won't happen...

40:11 They will say, "Our Lord, You made us lifeless twice and gave us life twice, and we have confessed our sins. So is there to an exit any way?"

In both 2:28 and 40:11 they were rejectors... There is no hint that believers got two life and two death... But it seems one..

37:58-59 "Is it then that we are not going to die, Except our first death, and that we shall not be punished?"

The above two verses is the conversation of people who are in Janna..
See the contrasting difference...

Believers will only have one life and there is no second chance coz they already knew while they die what their destiny were...
So how merciful God is to disbelievers... They were given a second chance but they failed..

Otherwise God never ask a question in 2:28 in a strange way.. "How can you reject God when you were dead and brought back to life... "
Believers will not grasp what this question is... But disbelievers should surely get what it is coz they have lived on this very earth before and died and the same soul is again placed inside another human body and they failed unfortunately.... Remember they themselves claim this in hell and not a word of God directly...
But they still would ask to send them back hoping that there is still the same earth do prevail... But unfortunately God destroyed earth and heavens and Janna was created ...

32:13 " And could you but see when the guilty shall hang down their heads before their Lord: Our Lord! we have seen and we have heard, therefore send us back, we will do good; surely (now) we are certain."

Just note the above verse... Now they are very much certain and seen and heard.. Coz they are about to suffer in hell and it is ready for them... But when they died first time they saw their death and they were kept until they were given another chance.. They are different from believers.. Coz they knew something that believers not aware.. But they discarded... 
Now they are in hell and still begging...

That's my take...
But 7:172 perhaps no connection with above two verses...  Unless someone explain how and why...

[tutti_frutti]

salam

i understand in the verse that The God is telling humanity (or perhaps just disbelievers depends how each reads the verse) how can we disbelieve when we didnt exist before then we were given life then we will not exist then we will be given life again and to The God we will return

i believe "death" here means not existing and we are invited to think logically ... that we were nothing and we were given life and we will again die and be given life again and return to The God ...

we are told we will return to The God so for me it clearly means all of us humans as we will all return to The God so the verse is directed at everyone and invites us to think logically
for me this verse has nothing to do with fate of either believers or disbelievers, as all of humanity will return to The God but the verse is rather an invitation to think logically and believe

maybe im wrong, but that is my understanding

peace

[Anoushirvan]

Salam,

Since Qur'an addresses numerous times to the "Children of Israel", verse 2.28 should be understood in a way that appeals to Jewish tradition and thought.

In ancient Jewish thought, death is a metaphor of idolatry and exile of the people of Israel in connection to the destruction of the Temple (hence the expression "Masjid al-Haram" in Qur'an, haram meaning also destroyed and not only sacred).

In ancient Jewish thought, there was this pattern:

First Temple (of Salomon) -> destruction of the First Temple and Exile, i.e. first death -> return from Exile and construction of the Second Temple, i.e. resurrection  -> destruction of the Second Temple and Exile, i.e. second death, waiting for the Messiah and the new resurrection.


Surah 2, and in particular verse 2.28, is related to the foundation of the Jewish Arab kingdom of 620/621 J.C., which event was reinterpreted three hundred year later as the "Hijra" by the Islamic tradition.

The foundation of this Jewish Arab kingdom is to be deemed as the equivalent of the new resurrection. And in effect, when 20 years later, Umar took Jerusalem, one very early chronicle (Sebeos) credits him to have rebuilt the Temple on the current Temple Mount.
Umar was also called al-Faruq in the Islamic tradition, but the origin of this name has nothing to do with discerning truth from lie: the word Faruq comes from Syriac Paroqa which means the Redeemer, i.e. the Messiah.

The problem was that the Messenger of Qur'an was strongly opposed to the modalities of foundations of this kingdom, blaming the founders for their chaos strategy. This chaos strategy is called al-Fassad in Qur'an, and it has very little to do with a mere question of morals.
The chaos strategy is still in use today by some terrorist groups hoping to hasten the coming of the end of times, which is exactly what the ancient Jewish tradition called resurrection and coming of the Messiah.

In the ancient Jewish tradition, the Messiah (the Redeemer) must come at the height of the tribulations of Israel. And if the Messiah doesn't come, it means that we are not quiet yet at the height of the tribulations, hence spreading chaos would surely help a bit the Messiah to come...

Tribulations is called "fitna" in the context of Qur'an.

There could be also some connections between al-Fassad and some Gnostic beliefs, as suggested by verse 2.30 but this would be too long to explain.

Verse 2.28 actually shifts the traditional pattern of the Jewish tradition in that way:

Second Temple time, i.e. first life -> Fitna of the Second Temple destruction and Exile, i.e. first death,  Kuntum 'Amwātāan  -> Foundation of the Jewish Arab kingdom of 620 / 621, i.e., new life, Fa'aĥyākum -> Future Fitna and destruction of this kingdom because it spreads Fassad, i.e. new death, Thumma Yumītukum -> A new State based on ethical basis according to Qur'an message, i.e. new life, Thumma Yuĥyīkum, and return to God.

[imrankhawaja]

40:11 They will say, "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this path?"

consider this one as well, perhaps hinting towards multiple lives and deaths = re-incarnation.

[Houriya]

Peace,

40:11 They will say, "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this path?"

consider this one as well, perhaps hinting towards multiple lives and deaths = re-incarnation.

If the prophet would fabricate something different against God, God threatened him to taste twice live and twice death.

17:73    And they nearly diverted you from what We inspired to you so that you would fabricate something different against Us, and then they would have taken you as a friend!
17:74    And if We had not made you stand firm, you were about to side with them a little bit.
17:75    Then, We would have made you taste twice life / di'fa alhayati and twice death / di'fa alamamat. And then you would not find for yourself any victor against Us.

Peace

[jkhan]

Peace,


If the prophet would fabricate something different against God, God threatened him to taste twice live and twice death.

17:73    And they nearly diverted you from what We inspired to you so that you would fabricate something different against Us, and then they would have taken you as a friend!
17:74    And if We had not made you stand firm, you were about to side with them a little bit.
17:75    Then, We would have made you taste twice life / di'fa alhayati and twice death / di'fa alamamat. And then you would not find for yourself any victor against Us.

Peace

Exactly sister Houriya....  i don't know you believe in reincarnation but it seems it happens...
Why prophet was threatened is coz he would end up as a rejector / disbeliever by fabricating against God... Disbelievers will go through two lives and that also seems bizzare... Having a life and go through is not an easy task ... to have it second time is horrible.. but we can't ensure whether all who got second chance failed.. God knows

[Houriya]

Those who had rejected ,They had a 2nd chance / 2nd life, they failed twice. Do they go other lives to repent of their disbelief, God only knows.

40:10    Those who had rejected will be told: "The abhorrence of God towards you is greater than your abhorrence of yourselves, for you were invited to believe, but you chose to reject."

40:11    They will say: "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this state?"

[good logic]

Peace All.
Two oints first:
1-Verse 2:28 is not addressing the Childeren of Israel, it is addressing those from 2:26 and 2:27-everyone-:

How can you disbelieve in God when you were dead and He gave you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life, then to Him you ultimately return?
كَيفَ تَكفُرونَ بِاللَّهِ وَكُنتُم أَموٰتًا فَأَحيٰكُم ثُمَّ يُميتُكُم ثُمَّ يُحييكُم ثُمَّ إِلَيهِ تُرجَعونَ

2- It-Amwatan/dead- cannot mean we were nothing, if GOD chose the word "Amwatan"- Dead- it can only mean that we were alive before that

GOD has already chosen "we were nothing- before," at the beginning of our first life:
"Awa Lam Yara Al Insan Anna Khalaknahu Min Kablu Wa Lam Yukun SHaiian"
"Does the human not realise that we created him before when he was NOTHING"- i.e first creation.

The indication from Qoran is that this "human stage" is our second life.
As for believers and disbelievers, their life and death are not the same.
"Do you think the lives and deaths of these two types of people are the same?

For example the believers at the end of their life as humans , their soul will be welcomed by the Angel of death and given the good news ,while awaiting the judgement somewhere confortable:
The angels terminate their lives in a state of righteousness, saying, "Peace be upon you. Enter Paradise (now, awaiting) as a reward for your works."
الَّذينَ تَتَوَفّىٰهُمُ المَلٰئِكَةُ طَيِّبينَ يَقولونَ سَلٰمٌ عَلَيكُمُ ادخُلُوا الجَنَّةَ بِما كُنتُم تَعمَلونَ
. .
On the other hand, the soul of the disbelievers will be snatched from them and kept awaiting its judgement -Death is like sleep-  with the continuous nightmare  of this bad news:
The angels put them to death in a state of wronging their souls. That is when they finally submit, and say, "We did not do anything wrong!" Yes indeed. God is fully aware of everything you have done.
الَّذينَ تَتَوَفّىٰهُمُ المَلٰئِكَةُ ظالِمى أَنفُسِهِم فَأَلقَوُا السَّلَمَ ما كُنّا نَعمَلُ مِن سوءٍ بَلىٰ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَليمٌ بِما كُنتُم تَعمَلونَ
:The Hell will be shown to them day and night, and on the Day of Resurrection: "Admit Pharaoh's people into the worst retribution."
النّارُ يُعرَضونَ عَلَيها غُدُوًّا وَعَشِيًّا وَيَومَ تَقومُ السّاعَةُ أَدخِلوا ءالَ فِرعَونَ أَشَدَّ العَذابِ

Basically , according to what happened in our first life, we are here out of mercy from the creator to either redeem ourselves back or put ourselves further away from GOD s kingdom:
Should we just ignore the fact that you have transgressed the limits?
أَفَنَضرِبُ عَنكُمُ الذِّكرَ صَفحًا أَن كُنتُم قَومًا مُسرِفينَ
This is the reason ,our "original sin" from our past life has led us here.

GOD bless you all.
Peace.