Author Topic: A claim against 4:82  (Read 149 times)

The Sardar

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A claim against 4:82
« on: July 19, 2020, 08:54:20 AM »
Salam/Peace everyone. There is a claim against 4:82 that i honestly have a hard time understanding it that i am not sure if i should do this post but i decided to post this to hopefully an issue i have. There is a claim that 4:82 contains a "false conditional statement" and that claim came from a blogspot which states that any man made book can be free from error. 4:82 is about Qur'an itself so i am not certain what this person even trying prove their point.

This is the blogspot i am referring to:

http://captaindisguise.blogspot.com/2013/02/qurans-error-sura-482-if-quran-had-been.html

Sorry if i am putting a burden on you siblings. I blame myself for getting into these issues.

*Edit*

I wonder if anyone has also came across this claim or something similar of this claim? I don't know if someone here in this forum have also made a post about this topic.

The Sardar

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Re: A claim against 4:82
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2020, 09:17:40 AM »
Salam/Peace, i just found a response towards this blogspot's claim:

https://thinkingislamcom.wordpress.com/2013/09/26/response-to-captaindisguises-post-about-verse-482/

Let me know what think of this siblings.

good logic

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Re: A claim against 4:82
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2020, 02:26:05 PM »
Peace The Sardar.
I agree with this, quote.:
Rather, it’s talking about a more precise counterfactual- on the event that this Qur’an was constructed by someone else it would contain inconsistencies- meaning, given the specific contexts of the Qur’an’s revelation and given the range of topics it covers- it would be impossible to avoid error. This could be construed as a variant of the popular scientific/historical miracles argument- the author of the Qur’an, if human, simply had no way of knowing some of the things it talks about e.g. future events, Judaeo-Christian narratives, scientific/historical facts, and so on. On such a counterfactual, it would be exceedingly probable that the Qur’an would contain external and internal errors. The fact that it doesn’t, tells us the source of this information is Divine.

Obviously people are still debating this consistency, And they will continue to do so. Evidence though to refute this consistency/error free of Qoran has been missing so far.
Unless someone brings the evidence.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Anoushirvan

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Re: A claim against 4:82
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2020, 10:27:47 PM »
Salam,

The problem is that Muslims, in which I include Qur'an alone people, want to take verse 4.82 as a proof that Qur'an was dictated by God, by saying there is no contradictions in it.
Of course you can find contradictions in it.

But that's not what verse 4.82 is saying. Verse 4.82 does not say that there is not contradictions in Qur'an.

Verse 4.82 is the continuation of verse 4.81:

4:81    And they say: "Obedience," but when they come out from being with you, a group of them prepares for other than what you have said, and God records what they planned. So turn away from them and put your trust in God. God is enough for your trust.

4:82    Do they not reflect on the Qur'an? If it was from any other than God they would have found in it many "Akhtilāfāan".


So verse 4.81 blames some people for claiming obedience to the messenger, but afterwards, they do something completely different from their promises.
They alternate obedience and disobedience to God and his messenger.

So Ikhtilaf means that: keep alternating between two or more attitudes towards God and his messenger.
 See e.g. verse 2.164 for the use of the word ikhtilaf:

2:164    Surely, in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation / ikhtilaf between the night and the day, and the ships that sail in the sea for the benefit of the people, and what God has sent down of water from the sky so He brings the earth back to life after it had died, and He sent forth from it every creature, and the dispatching of the winds and the clouds that have been commissioned between the earth and the sky are signs for a people who comprehend.

So basically, verse 4.82 says that God doesn't change His promises as remembered in Qur'an, unlike those people of verse 4.81. It doesn't say you can't find contradictions in Qur'an.

good logic

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Re: A claim against 4:82
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2020, 02:33:18 PM »
Peace TheSardar.
You should have realised by now that Qoran has many followers:
-Those who believe what it says.
-Those who are not sure what it says.
-Those who don t believe a word of what it says.
-Those who belive that it says what they understand it says.
-Those who believe what others understand what it says.
...Add your own to the list.
And Qoran still will go on saying what it wants to say. So like I said to you before;
Wait, we too are waiting.
Anushirvan is fine, he says a while back in one  post, quote:
" And a side note for those who are in perplexity for my speech : I'm a quranist, Quran is my book.".

Need I say more? For me,the only contradictions I see is in the people who follow this wierd and amazing book.
Yes, each to their own Qoran.
This guy who wrote Qoran(Jew or otherwise) knows Arabic to the tee. And knew/ knows some amazing things/facts that the mind cannot possibly comprehend. What a guy!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/