Author Topic: Concerns  (Read 5249 times)

Jafar

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Re: Concerns
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2020, 09:11:56 PM »

I understood that you didn't recomand me to believe, I just ask you if you consider yourself as a deist ?
There are a lot of things we can't know, even if I question myself. But we can reach to an answer if we look for it, but for some things not all things. And of course, I think that without doing anything we can't reach anything.

I have stopped labeling and stereotyping others as such the implication is i've also stopped labeling and stereotyping 'myself'. I don't put anything on the pedestal, as such I also don't put myself on the pedestal.

I can say to you that:
You shall find answer to anything that you look for.
Although time and effort is required.

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I don't thing that all the believers fear the unbelievers.
Then the believer has stopped to become merely a believer, he/she has gain knowledge.

When you know that 1 + 1 = 2, you will not become restless or seek a 'confirmation from others' that 1+1=2. You will feel comfortable even when you're the only one who say  1+1=2 while others around you 'believe' that 1+1=5 or 1+1=7

I've put Kimism and North Korea as a perfect example for religion and how it effects the believers on some of my post here. The reason being I'm certain that nobody in this forum is a believer of Kimism due to Internet is not available to the believer of Kimism, thus nobody will feel that their identity are being threatened thus objectivity is ensured.
Common citizen of North Korea do not and cannot access internet.

Believer of Kimism fear the unbeliever of Kimism.
Because the threat of let's say "if you access the internet the Kim's regime will punish you severely" does not work on them.

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I think that some people are upset if someone else think otherwise, and even more if they are enable to answer their questions.

They're upset because they seek a confirmation of their belief.
Believer of Kimism will be very happy when they find a foreigner who said "North Korea is the best country in the world!" or "Kim Jong Un is respected by the entire world!". Because it confirmed their belief.

They will be very upset when they find somebody who said "Kim Jong Un is a madman!" or "Hamburger was actually not invented by Kim" or "I actually saw Kim in the men's room he urinate and defecate just like you and me".
Because it go against their belief, and when the person who said those are foreigner thus an unbeliever it fear them more because the threat of "Kim will punish you for saying that!" will not work on them.

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I have  been exposed to it : unbelief (I could describe myself as an agnostic), and during that period of time in my life, I wasn't exposed to those fears.

Then isn't it good for you, at least you're free from those fear?

Believer of Kimism fear Kim Jong Un because they put Kim Jong Un on the pedestal, more than common human like you and me, Kim Jong Un is a super human, a god.

Once the believer of Kimism realize that Kim Jong Un is human like you and me, a kind of mentally sick and crazy human. He / she has destroyed his / her own figure on the pedestal, just like Abraham destroyed Marduk statue on the pedestal. The fear is gone, but the realization of the threat remains, the once believer of Kimism usually seek safety by migrating out from North Korea where he / she can feel safe from the threat of Kim's regime, and never ever wanted to return there as long as Kimism is still prevalent in North Korea.

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But "something", I don't know how to explain it, twice or more times led me to reconsider beliefs and approach God and try to be fair and read the scripture(s). I really want to be fair and if I do otherwise it causes suffering to me. I don't know if you understand me.

Why you pair God with scripture(s)?
Do you think scripture(s) = God ?
Have you ever ask such question yourselves?

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I am someone who is conscious that as a humain being I can do mistakes.
Certainly, and from mistakes we will learn.

good logic

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Re: Concerns
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2020, 05:42:17 AM »
Peace jafar.
You say ,quote:
"They're upset because they seek a confirmation of their belief.
Believer of Kimism will be very happy when they find a foreigner who said "North Korea is the best country in the world!" or "Kim Jong Un is respected by the entire world!". Because it confirmed their belief.

They will be very upset when they find somebody who said "Kim Jong Un is a madman!" or "Hamburger was actually not invented by Kim" or "I actually saw Kim in the men's room he urinate and defecate just like you and me".
Because it go against their belief, and when the person who said those are foreigner thus an unbeliever it fear them more because the threat of "Kim will punish you for saying that!" will not work on them."

The fact of this matter is some do and some do not. Or have you checked with every one of them?
Again, if we generalise ,we will be unfair and unjust to some people or have you got the perfect knowledge of all and you know there is not a single exception?
 So in reality brother, you have not stopped this, quote from yourself:

"I have stopped labeling and stereotyping others as such the implication is i've also stopped labeling and stereotyping 'myself'. I don't put anything on the pedestal, as such I also don't put myself on the pedestal."


 There might just be some exception "north Koreans" that are reading your post and thinking:" This guy is labelling me" Or not, but you cannot know that, nor can I . However it is a possibility,  or is it not?

We simply cannot be 100% sure when generalising.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Jafar

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Re: Concerns
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2020, 08:49:19 AM »
The fact of this matter is some do and some do not. Or have you checked with every one of them?

It's a gradual distribution, yet the more pious they are, the stronger their love and attachment to our great leader, the more upset they will be. Being upset is an expression of love to our great leader. We must hate those who our great leader's hate.

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There might just be some exception "north Koreans" that are reading your post and thinking:" This guy is labelling me" Or not, but you cannot know that, nor can I . However it is a possibility,  or is it not?

Oh there are infact many North Koreans citizen who has become an 'apostate', a kufr.
The number is 300,000 who has taken a foolish step of blasphemy against the great leader and the country.

But.. the number is recently dwindling, due to the new policy taken by our beloved great leader.
Those who defect out from North Korea, the leftover family members in North Korea will be punished!

Truly a genius policy taken by our great leader, and an evidence of His Majesty's Divinity.


So when I defected from North Korea, our beloved great leader will either capture, torture, or put into prison my leftover mom, dad, brother, sister, grandma, grandpa, cousin, because of their negligence of doing proper da'wah to me.

Fear is what hold the religion together and when it seems that the level of fear is not enough to stop the growth of blasphemy, apostasy and unbeliever-ism, then let's boost the intensity of the fear!

good logic

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Re: Concerns
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2020, 01:47:24 PM »
Peace jafar.
Your post has not addressed the concern of "labelling".
 It has added more concern over "you should have no fear" when you say, quote:

"So when I defected from North Korea, our beloved great leader will either capture, torture, or put into prison my leftover mom, dad, brother, sister, grandma, grandpa, cousin, because of their negligence of doing proper da'wah to me."

Or did you not change your name to jafar out of fear? Or just make up something like jafar is only your "internet "name?
Never mind though.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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Fadiva

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Re: Concerns
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2020, 02:15:42 PM »
Peace Jafar,

No, I don't think Scriptures = God but His message.
Yes, when I was an agnostic I thought that there can be a God excluding scriptures.

It is ok to have no fears, but this does not necessarily mean that we are right.

Yes, it's right that some people use fears to prevent people from seeking other things or even from thinking otherwise. And religions are accused of manipulating their believers by some people.

I remember having read a message from a French muslim thinker (I don't remember is name) saying that if there was no Hell, a lot of "muslims" will not follow Islam (something like that) if I remember well) meaning that fear of hell holds them back. Maybe he was right maybe be wrong. But I think he was talking according to his experience of life, his meetings with other muslims.
The idea of hell is in the average muslim minds ( maybe a majority of them). Maybe more than the thinking of paradise.

Jafar

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Re: Concerns
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2020, 08:25:37 PM »
Your post has not addressed the concern of "labelling".
I think I have addressed that if you're diligently read through the response.
Definitely every individual is different.
And my kudos to those who sided with their own conscience regardless of repressive environment that they're into.  :bravo:

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Or did you not change your name to jafar out of fear? Or just make up something like jafar is only your "internet "name?

Oh yes Jafar is a merely a facade, behind it is actually  Kim Jong Un.

And my way of gaining domination and control over my minions is through fear perpetrated by a religion dedicated to worship my family. I mean a specific person inside my family (read: ME). I have eliminated any potential threat to me inside my family such as my uncle and my brother. It also served as a lesson to those who dare to threaten my power and position. I'm continuously monitor everyone especially in my family and I will eliminate those who become a threat to my power and position.

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I remember having read a message from a French muslim thinker (I don't remember is name) saying that if there was no Hell, a lot of "muslims" will not follow Islam (something like that) if I remember well) meaning that fear of hell holds them back. Maybe he was right maybe be wrong. But I think he was talking according to his experience of life, his meetings with other muslims.

The principle works pretty much the same way on other religion not only Islam.
I've cited Kimism above, there's also Nazism, Japanese Empire Facism, Stalinism, Judaism, Mardukism, Catholicism, Aztecism and thousand of others..

And personal level as well, school bullies also work in practically the same way.
Abusive husband, abusive parent, abusive boss / superior and many others.

There is a potential 'impact' when you have fear and you do not address it or conquer it properly.
You will spill and spread the fear to others.

Bullies usually have abusive parent or actually victim of being bullied in the past.
Member of abusive religion spread threat to the 'unbeliever', they're sharing their own fear to others.


imrankhawaja

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Re: Concerns
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2020, 03:42:47 AM »
What is IT in us that fears?

Our ID/mask/personality?

The concept of fear rooted deep in humanity since ancient times. When human observe around  that everything/everyone getting expire and attacment with one ID creates fear and trying to understand it this way, Aww thats it we live and die thats what all it is about US?

Urge/desire of continuity make a person seek something beyond all this and person want to make himself/herself satisfied by thinking about the idea of hereafter.

The earliest ever religious document "book of dead" also somehow explain same thing and the business maker used the unapproachable FIGURE by different labels called god/s.

Its all attached with OUR ego what we percieve as self?
Attachment and de-attachment with things related with us can make us think how to handle that.

Human being is an advance product of evolution of billions years of life so that new conscious brain is somewhat difficult to handle the information what that brain recieved from time to time
leaves impression to become an IDentity/ego.

Most of the times satisfaction is also fake in which 99 % people live according to their traditional beliefs about the picture of ideas of hereafter what human made itself.

The first religious document deals with the horrors of after life with specific formulas/verses to save an individual in after life so that people buy those formulas.


amin

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Re: Concerns
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2020, 04:42:33 AM »
People fear for many reasons, and some use that as a tool on others to earn their own livlihood, like the soothsayers, the fake priests and some so called religious people and even the people in power, and there may be some truth hidden out, but its still better to do our own research to come out of the fear imposed on us by the society. Some times being fearfull is helpfull indeed, by making us slow down and refine to take a cautious approach on things but keep Learning and gaining knowledge helps us overcome our false fears.

not Idolizing and not worshipping things thats not worth its value is one way to overcome our fears by always keeping our senses active to information and knowledge and refining our thoughts.

good logic

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Re: Concerns
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2020, 06:59:57 AM »
amin, I like your style of thought.
Is fear our friend or our enemy or both?
Surely some "fear" can be beneficial if it saves us from harm?
 Or, quote;
Fear is part instinct, part learned, part taught. Some fears are instinctive: Pain, for example, causes fear because of its implications for survival. Other fears are learned: We learn to be afraid of certain people, places, or situations because of negative associations and past experiences. A near-drowning incident, for example, may cause fear each time you get close to a body of water. Other fears are taught: Cultural norms often dictate whether something should be feared or not. Think, for example, about how certain social groups are feared and persecuted because of a societally-created impression that they are dangerous.

However, fear of fear can keep us locked in a cage of insecurity.
 
I think it depends. One can either welcome fear or overcome  fear.
It is just  a question of what kind of fear do we  welcome  and what kind should we overcome?
But fear is here to stay with us.
GOD bless.
Peace.
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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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Jafar

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Re: Concerns
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2020, 11:41:18 AM »
1. Understand what fear is, where did it came from, how it works etc..
2. Don't judge whether it's good or bad, as nothing is or everything is both, depending on your perspective.
3. When you understand fear, you can control it, when you can control it, you have conquered it.
4. When you can't control fear, fear will will control you instead.
5. When fear controlled you, you will spread fear to others like infectious disease.

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our own mind"
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