New discoveries about 9:128-129

[Rauf]

Hi. I have long time ago read Rashad Khalifa's claims (19 and 9:128-129). But then all of a sudden some days ago I thought that I should research this more about this, since Rashad Khalifa claims his 19 miracle cannot be imitated. This is what I have found.

Amazing information about Quran 9:128-129:

The 19th word is "Allah", and total number of letters is 114 (19*6), if we include hamza. Total numerical value of the first and last letters of the verses (Lam, Mim, Fa, Mim) are 190 (19*10).

91289129 =19*4804691
9+128+129 = 266 (14*19)    (2+6+6=14)

The triliteral root rā sīn lām (ر س ل) occurs 513 times in the Quran. (divisible by 19, doesn't work without 9:128)
http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=rsl#(9:128:3)   

The word Anfusikum, are used 38 times (أنفسكم) (divisible by 19, doesn't work without 9:128)
This is a special counting with no letter before Alif. This methodology was also used by RK.
http://alquran.eu/index.php?searchText=%20أنفسكم%20&searchOption=whole&trans=Quran&selectedSuras=1,&analyze=0&case_sensitive=0&non_transliteration=1&srchT=Quran&divNum=19 (This is a submitter site, so this counts as 37 times)

19 times with 9:128 ʿazīz (عَزِيز). (divisible by 19, doesn't work without 9:128)
(special counting with no letter before first letter and no letter after last letter).  RK used many different methods, too.
http://alquran.eu/index.php?searchText=%20عَز%D9%90يز%20&searchOption=whole&trans=Quran&selectedSuras=1,&analyze=0&case_sensitive=0&non_transliteration=1&srchT=Quran&divNum=19 (This is a submitter site, so this counts as 18 times)

Any thoughts?

[Wakas]

The triliteral root rā sīn lām (ر س ل) occurs 513 times in the Quran. (divisible by 19, doesn't work without 9:128)
http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=rsl#(9:128:3)   

The word Anfusikum, are used 38 times (أنفسكم) (divisible by 19, doesn't work without 9:128)
This is a special counting with no letter before Alif. This methodology was also used by RK.
http://alquran.eu/index.php?searchText=%20أنفسكم%20&searchOption=whole&trans=Quran&selectedSuras=1,&analyze=0&case_sensitive=0&non_transliteration=1&srchT=Quran&divNum=19 (This is a submitter site, so this counts as 37 times)

19 times with 9:128 ʿazīz (عَزِيز). (divisible by 19, doesn't work without 9:128)
(special counting with no letter before first letter and no letter after last letter).  RK used many different methods, too.
http://alquran.eu/index.php?searchText=%20عَز%D9%90يز%20&searchOption=whole&trans=Quran&selectedSuras=1,&analyze=0&case_sensitive=0&non_transliteration=1&srchT=Quran&divNum=19 (This is a submitter site, so this counts as 18 times)

Any thoughts?

And what about the other words in 9:128 - did you check them also? If not, why only those words?

[Rauf]

And what about the other words in 9:128 - did you check them also? If not, why only those words?

I also checked other words. I want to check more. why did you ask?

[Noon waalqalami]

Any thoughts?

peace,
easily done any text, another example first nineteen (19 x 1) letters
9:128 لقد verily جاكم came you رسول messenger من from انفسكم souls yours

لقد جاكم رسول من انفسكم

sequence gv : 301004 312040 20060630 4050 15080602040 = 19 x ...!
sequence #, word size, ltr # : 1 3 123 2 4 4567 3 4 891011 4 2 1213 5 6 141516171819 = 19 x ...!
sequence #, word gv, local ltr # : 1 134 123 2 64 1234 3 296 1234  4 90 12 5 251 123456  = 19 x ...!
sequence #, cumulative gv, ltr # : 1 134 123 2 198 4567 3 494 891011 4 584 1213 5 835 141516171819 = 19 x ...!
gv, ltr # : 30 1 100 2 4 3 3 4 1 5 20 6 40 7 200 8 60 9 6 10 30 11 40 12 50 13 1 14 50 15 80 16 60 17 20 18 40 19 = 19 x ...!

1) numerology 5% multiples hide 18/19 or 95% not
this can be done with most any text e.g. verses ...
•   91289129 = 19 x 4804691
•   9 + 128 + 129 = 266 (14 x 19)
•   total letters 60 + 54 = 114 (6 x 19)
•   19th word is  الله
•   76th letter (76 = 19 x 4) is alif in  الله
•   # of letters from beginning of verse to including  الله equals 19
•   9:129 فان so if تولوا turn they of فقل so say حسبى suffices me الله
•   19th word  الله to end of chapter 9 is multiple
130305 301 1305 1301 56 7030105 40062030400 656 2002 13070200300 130709001040 = 19 x ...
•   19th word  الله followed by word # to end of chapter 9 is multiple
130305 19 301 20 1305 21 1301 22 56 23 7030105 24 40062030400 25 656 26 2002 27 13070200300 28 130709001040 29 = 19 x...

•   initials in oldest dated manuscripts not counted as separate verses
University of Birmingham: Islamic Arabic 1572 dated 568-645 CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/3/handschrift/281
20:1 طه ta ha (together with next verse)
20:2 ما not انزلنا descends we of علىك upon you القران the recitation لتشقى to thou agonize

2) property of certain prime numbers: 7, 11, 19, 29, etc.

3) erroneous translation, language comprehension (e.g. Qur'an is masculine), not reading in context.
verses nothing to do with today's nineteen numerology and refers to doubters questioning revelation.

66:6 ىاىها O you الذىن the ones امنوا believes ye of قوا protect ye of انفسكم souls yours واهلىكم and family yours نارا fire of وقودها and fuel its الناس the people والحجره and the stone علىها over her/it ملىكه controllers غلاظ stern شدد severe لا not ىعصون disobeying الله the god ما what امرهم directive theirs وىفعلون and fulfilling ما what ىومرون commanded being

74:27 وما and what ادرك makes know you ما what سقر abyss?
74:28 لا not تبقى lets remain ولا and not تذر leave
74:29 لوحه scorching للبشر to the mortal
74:30 علىها over her/it تسعه nonet عشر ten (group of nineteen masculine entities/controllers)
74:31 وما and not جعلنا made we of اصحب companions النار the fire الا except ملىكه controllers وما and not جعلنا made we of عدتهم count theirs الا except فتنه trial للذىن for the ones كفروا reject they of لىستىقن surely convinced الذىن the ones اوتوا given they of الكتب the book وىزدد and increased الذىن the ones امنوا believes they of اىمنا faith of ولا and not ىرتب doubted الذىن the ones اوتوا given they of الكتب the book والمومنون and those believing ولىقول and surely speaketh الذىن the ones فى in قلوبهم hearts theirs مرض illness والكفرون and the rejecting ماذا what hath اراد intends الله the god بهذا in this مثلا similitude of? (i.e. asking why 19 controllers/guards over abyss?) كذلك like such ىضل misguided الله the god من whom ىشا willed وىهدى and guided من whom ىشا willed وما and not ىعلم knoweth جنود soldiers ربك lord your (# of controllers/guards over abyss) الا except هو he وما and not هى it is الا except ذكرى reminder للبشر to the mortal

peace!

[tutti_frutti]

salam

i am very confused why people seem to believe rashad khalifa and his claims about so called "miracle of 19" and that he is a messenger

i believe there is no such thing

for one, it is clear that 19 refers to angels who guard the fire as seen for example in verse 6 of chapter 66

"O you who believe! save yourselves and your families from a fire whose fuel is men and stones; over it are angels stern and strong, they do not disobey The God in what He commands them, and do as they are commanded."

the fire is guarded by angels, and from chapter 74 we understand that their number is 19 (also by reading chapter 74 it is very clear that over "it" means over the fire. i do not understand why people randomly think The God is referring to the Quran)

and who gave rashad khalifa the right to remove two verses from chapter 9? isnt it extremely dangerous to start manipulating the Quran?

the so called 19 miracle has no basis and in my opinion very dangerous to follow. it is simply illogical

please people do not be fooled

there are literally 19 guardians over the fire.

we have clues about hell including the following:

the earth and skies will change to another

the triple forked shadow (perhaps when we look at the earth it seems like a triple forked shadow? atlantic is the middle fork, pacific ocean on both sides as the other forks (i am just speculating)... or maybe the triple forked shadow refers to the sidra tree? (cosmic tree ygdrassil in norse mythology had three branches, maybe related?)... is it also a coincidence that the cosmic or world tree is present everywhere in world mythologies/religions (remember humankind was one nation until people divided in their worship of The God and so perhaps remnants of truth maybe remained across world religions such as mention of the global deluge and cosmic tree?)

moses was told by The God he would be shown the refuge of disbelievers, and then later we are told the earth opened and swallowed many disbelievers who took the calf (i believe that is when moses was shown the refige of the disbelievers)

all humans will be around/in it and The God will save who He wants from it

we are told the disbelievers disbelieve in it whilst they sat on it

had the disbelievers had the eye of certainty they would have seen it

the seas will be turned ablaze

7 skies and of the like the earth (7 earths??) and we are told hell has seven gates
we are also told the skies will become gates

my opinion: hell is the universe (perhaps the earths are hell and the 7 skies are molten copper)

my counter argument:
my issue with hell being the universe is the "cosmic tree" (the sidra tree?). The God gives an example of His light and mentions It is lit from a blessed tree. my question is whether the blessed tree is sidra tree (which i understand is in this universe) or whether the sidra tree is actually the zaqqum tree and the example of The God's light is a metaphor only or is about another tree

...

those are just my opinions. i might be misguided so please verify everything yourselves

peace my friends

[Wakas]

I also checked other words.

And what was the result? Please share.

I want to check more. why did you ask?

Because numerologists tend to cherry-pick then marvel at their cherry-picked result, so I wondered why you never included other words in the verse. Also I haven't studied it so wanted to know the results.


If you do not share them I will assume they weren't multiples of 19.

[Rauf]

And what was the result? Please share.

Because numerologists tend to cherry-pick then marvel at their cherry-picked result, so I wondered why you never included other words in the verse. Also I haven't studied it so wanted to know the results.


If you do not share them I will assume they weren't multiples of 19.

I don't know if Quran have any connection with 19. Allah knows the best. I created this thread to counter Rashad Khalifas arguments. Rashad Khalifa didn't make 19 counting out of every word in the 9:128-129. When some words didn't work, I just dig deeper with other words.

[Rauf]

the word "l-ʿaẓīmi"
19 times in the Quran with 9:129
http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=EZm#(9:129:15)

[Emre_1974tr]

https://bookdown.org/gokmenaltay19/Quran19/

[Layth]

Peace/Salam.

If I can weigh in on this discussion...

There are 2 questions here that probably need separating:

1. Can the Quran be altered?
2. Can messengers still exist after Mohammed?

For point # 1, I believe the answer is "yes" based on the simple observation that we have more than one variant of the printed Quran floating around (the most popular being Hafs in the Middle East and Warsh in North Africa).

https://www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/WhichQuran.pdf

Which one is the correct Quran revealed by Gabriel to Mohammed? Is it the one with 6236 verse stops or the one with 6213 verse stops?

In the absence of the original Quran penned by Mohammad, no real method has existed to verify the Quran's text - meaning that the argument of 2 verses being injected may have some credibility if an objective method was found to test the text against (not sure if the method of cherry picking as Wakas pointed out hold any credibility).

On point # 2, messengers have been sent since the beginning of our journey on Earth. Sometimes they are sent alone, sometimes in pairs, sometimes in threes. It is the message that determines the messenger - so, for every genuine messenger there are probably tens of charlatans who think God speaks to them and they go out to promote themselves over any message.