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Author Topic: If we take a Kaaba as a sign of prophetic presence in Mecca before Muhammad a.s.  (Read 1514 times)

Layth

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Re: If we take a Kaaba as a sign of prophetic presence in Mecca before Muhammad a.s.
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2020, 04:45:57 AM »
Salam,

Quote
Most of the above stands true for the current Makkah.
I understand not considering hadiths as having any religious authority but to disregard them as providing historical accounts with specific details ?
The burden of proof is much much greater for anyone to claim that a city is not who it is known to be. Specially with islamic historians and the hadiths in general being a thing, and not just ignored

Yes, Makkah (Arabia) also agrees to an extent. The bigger issue is not whether Makka is Makka (Arabia) or Petra or Medain Saleh - rather, it is that conclusively Makka (of the Quran) and Bacca (of the Quran) are not the same place.

The place where Lot lived is the same place where Mohammad's people were located...

The place where Abraham lived, was some distance away and was where the Pilgrimage was held.
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`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Layth

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Re: If we take a Kaaba as a sign of prophetic presence in Mecca before Muhammad a.s.
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2020, 12:07:02 PM »
Just to add one more point I forgot. According to Meccan tradition (not a reliable source) there was an attack by birds carrying meteors on Mecca prior to the birth of Mohammed (it is claimed this is the reference in chapter 105).

What I find interesting is that the “fiery rocks” referenced in chapter 105 are the same “fiery rocks” used to destroy the town of Lot (15:74, 11:82). Could this tradition be a memory of the destruction of the town - simply misplaced in its time-line & audience?
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`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Wakas

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Re: If we take a Kaaba as a sign of prophetic presence in Mecca before Muhammad a.s.
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2020, 12:41:40 PM »
peace Safe,

I have read this argument before but it could be said Abraham's people died out or moved on eventually and a new people (i.e. Muhammad's ancestors) began to live in that region.

Dan Gibson has a lot of info on the petra/mecca issue.

Personally I do not find a specific location as necessary. Prophet Muhammad it seems was instructed to follow the exemplar/blueprint of Abraham, see:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
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All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Safe_from_sweden

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Re: If we take a Kaaba as a sign of prophetic presence in Mecca before Muhammad a.s.
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2020, 08:47:55 AM »
I came across this site http://nantt44.unblog.fr/2019/02/21/chapter-viii-betius-charmutha-arabia-felix-and-the-climatic-change/ which is very interesting. Among other things, many interesting conclusions are mentioned. Especially the map is interesting. I have not gone further to investigate how much credibility there is in these ancient maps but if it is true then it supports what is mentioned in verses 37: 137-138 "they passed by their ruins day and night".

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