Author Topic: Deleting good deeds  (Read 1672 times)

ilma_bee

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Deleting good deeds
« on: May 13, 2020, 02:48:11 PM »
Salam

In the holy Quran, there are many verses that say all good deeds will be nullified if a person commits big sin. But in some verses it says that the good deeds of the believers will be nullified (for stuff that are obviously not big sins, technically it's not even sin) like, if they raise their voice above the prophet's voice. My question is, are all good deeds going to be nullified or just some of them.. And also, we are able not to do great sins, like murder. We can protect ourselves from that and losing our deeds, but if even small stuff can be the reason to lose all your deeds then it's impossible to bring anything to the day of judgement. On the other hand, there are verses that say that small sins will be forgiven if we stay away from the big ones. Then this seems like a contradicttion.. Will small sin be forgiven, or it will delete all your good deeds? I'm confused

(Somebody might say raising voice above prophet's voice is a big thing. I agree, but in every day life we say or do stuff without paying attention and we tend to forget..how to not make similar mistakes?)

Jafar

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Re: Deleting good deeds
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2020, 10:14:14 PM »
Rather than seeing this with trading "weight scale" model, good on the left side and bad on the right side, some good can be 'discounted' during special events and same on the bad can be deducted with special voucher code. Which was the model originally described in the egyptian book of the dead, picture below:



I see the more appropriate model to see this is more towards:

Anything that one think, feel and do shall be reflected back towards it's own soul.

The hate you sent out will be reflected back.
The love you sent out will be reflected back, and the love will cleanse the hate.
The anger you sent out will be reflected back.
The forgiveness you sent out will be reflected back, and it will also cleanse the anger and hate.
The fear you sent out will be reflected back.
The peace you sent out will be reflected back, and it will cleanse the fear.
and so on.. and so on..

So no 'good' or 'bad' or anything in between will actually be 'nullified', however the variance will be balanced, and it shall be reflected on the 'overall state' of one soul.

This model is actually the 'eastern model', and the reflecting mechanism is known as the "Law Of Reciprocality" also known as the "Law of Karma". Similar to the other law of the universe, the law is applicable to everyone (and everything), regardless whether they believe in it or not, regardless of their religion, tradition, nationality, ethnicity, gender, holy books that they believe in, species etc..

From this 'framework' thus the golden rule was born.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Because it will be reflected back anyway...

And what is the 'state' of the soul?

"if you wish to understand the secret of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration"
-- Nikolai Tesla

The soul is a form of energy, known with many names, Chi, Prana, Aura.
It vibrate, and the vibration follows certain range of frequency and as described above it correlate with thoughts and emotions.

Negative emotion emits low frequency, Positive emotion emits high frequency.
That's why people adopting this model usually use the terms of 'rising your vibration' or 'lowering your vibration'.

The thought, emotion thus deed of Forgiving for example, it's categorized as among high frequency.
The more things that you are able to forgive it will also increase the amplitude or 'signal strength' within the frequency of forgiveness thus it will greatly increase your soul vibration. And vice versa, the less things that you are able to forgive will emit lower amplitude and it will increase your soul vibration with lesser amount.


huruf

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Re: Deleting good deeds
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2020, 03:43:08 AM »
Salam

In the holy Quran, there are many verses that say all good deeds will be nullified if a person commits big sin. But in some verses it says that the good deeds of the believers will be nullified (for stuff that are obviously not big sins, technically it's not even sin) like, if they raise their voice above the prophet's voice. My question is, are all good deeds going to be nullified or just some of them.. And also, we are able not to do great sins, like murder. We can protect ourselves from that and losing our deeds, but if even small stuff can be the reason to lose all your deeds then it's impossible to bring anything to the day of judgement. On the other hand, there are verses that say that small sins will be forgiven if we stay away from the big ones. Then this seems like a contradicttion.. Will small sin be forgiven, or it will delete all your good deeds? I'm confused

(Somebody might say raising voice above prophet's voice is a big thing. I agree, but in every day life we say or do stuff without paying attention and we tend to forget..how to not make similar mistakes?)

I would help if your refer to specific ayas of the Qur'an not just a general overview, which one cannot check against the Qur'an itself.

Salaam

ade_cool

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Re: Deleting good deeds
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 10:02:13 PM »
Salam

In the holy Quran, there are many verses that say all good deeds will be nullified if a person commits big sin. But in some verses it says that the good deeds of the believers will be nullified (for stuff that are obviously not big sins, technically it's not even sin) like, if they raise their voice above the prophet's voice. My question is, are all good deeds going to be nullified or just some of them.. And also, we are able not to do great sins, like murder. We can protect ourselves from that and losing our deeds, but if even small stuff can be the reason to lose all your deeds then it's impossible to bring anything to the day of judgement. On the other hand, there are verses that say that small sins will be forgiven if we stay away from the big ones. Then this seems like a contradicttion.. Will small sin be forgiven, or it will delete all your good deeds? I'm confused

(Somebody might say raising voice above prophet's voice is a big thing. I agree, but in every day life we say or do stuff without paying attention and we tend to forget..how to not make similar mistakes?)

Salam ilma_bee,

[4:116] God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up  partners with God has indeed strayed a far straying.

[6:88] Such is the guidance of God, He guides with it whom He pleases of His servants. And if they set up partners, then all that they had  worked would fall away from them.

Committing shirk is what make deeds become in vain and God does not forgive this sin (He forgives other than that for whom He is pleased with).

[2:271] If you openly give charities, then it is acceptable; but if you conceal them and give them to the poor, then that is better for  you. And He cancels some of your sins; and God is Expert to all  that you do.

He erases some of our sins if we give charity openly or secretly.

[11:114] And hold the Connection at two parts of the day, and the near side of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a  reminder to those who remember.

Good deeds take away the bad ones.

[4:31] If you avoid the major sins that you are prohibited against, then We will cancel your existing sins and admit you to a generous  entrance.

Nobody is sinless but if we strive to avoid major ones, then God promises cancellation of minor ones.

Based on these, I personally put my first priority to avoid committing shirk as this will be the one that He will not forgive and it will result in other deeds become in vain and we have been informed that majority of those who believe in God are committing shirk.

[12:103] And most of the people, even if you are diligent, will not believe.
[12:104] And you are not asking them for any wage, it is but a reminder to the worlds.
[12:105] And how many a sign in the heavens and the earth do they pass by, while they are turning away from it.
[12:106] And most of them will not believe in God except while setting up partners.

Some examples of what can make one become mushrik:

- Being divided into "religion"

[30:30] So set your face to the system of monotheism. It is the inclination that God has nurtured the people on. There is no changing in the  creation of God. Such is the pure system, but most of the people  do not know.
[30:31] Turn to Him, and be aware of Him, and hold the Connection, and do not be of the polytheists.
[30:32] From those who have divided their system and become "religion", each group exult with what they have.

- Forbid things based on what God has never authorized.

[16:35] And those who were polytheists said: “If God had wished, we would not have served a thing other than Him; neither us nor  our fathers; nor would we have made forbidden anything other  than from Him.” Those before them did exactly the same thing;  so are the messengers required to do anything except deliver with  clarity?

[7:33] Say: “My Lord has made forbidden immorality; what is public of it and private; and sin, and aggression without cause, and that  you set up partners with God that which He has never authorized,  and that you say about God what you do not know.”




Wassalam,
Ade

Cerberus

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Re: Deleting good deeds
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2020, 11:44:47 PM »

[2:271] If you openly give charities, then it is acceptable; but if you conceal them and give them to the poor, then that is better for  you.



This is an interesting verse that has a hidden bit of (unexplained) wisdom in it.

huruf

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Re: Deleting good deeds
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2020, 11:49:34 PM »
If you are associating partners to God, of course you cannot be forgiven till you do not stop associating partners to God, but not because God has a certain accounting books where he keeps adding or substracting but because YOU live in unreality. When one lives in unreality what punishes him is his or her incapacity to live truly and therefore be true. If you are one step away from falling into a chasm, is not any accounting book which will keep you safe, but your own conviction that if you do take that step will die, if you do not have that conviction and play around with taking or not taking that step as it it was a choice which can turn out well after all, you are living inunreality. And God es Reality, the only one, and if you choose to disregard it, Reality does not forgive you. It is you who has to change, not reality. And when you change you are forgiven, but it is upon you that falls the responsibility, not on any accounting books.

Salaam 

Layth

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Re: Deleting good deeds
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2020, 11:50:53 PM »
Salam Ade,

Great summary - very clear and simple.

Thank you for sharing.
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Cerberus

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Re: Deleting good deeds
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2020, 01:12:31 AM »
Take all those verses that ade_cool quoted about "polytheists" and see what's the common point in them ? it seems to be that the "mushrik" (oddly translated to polytheist) are motivated by selfish, self-serving actions.

But how does the belief of multiple gods relate to these apparent trait of being selfish and self-serving ?
If we think about people who came before and who culturally believed in multiple gods e.g the greeks and yet had some of the brightest people to discuss and develop on selfless and reasonable acts.

Similarly, if we think about people who culturally believe that there is one god, how does that make them not selfish or self-serving ? How does the idea of being polytheist relate to trait of character that is clearly highlighted in those verses that were quoted there, mainly being driven by selfishness ?

The idea that mushrik = polytheist on one hand, and the idea that those same people are described by "proudly dividing themselves into sects" and "not believing in god unless they associate what they wish with him" etc begs a lot of questions.

ilma_bee

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Re: Deleting good deeds
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2020, 03:09:54 AM »
What's bothering me is the verse number 2, Surat Hujurat:

O you who have believed, do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet or be loud to him in speech like the loudness of some of you to others, lest your deeds become worthless while you perceive not.

This is not shirk, or some other big sin (kebire, for which there is punishment mentioned in Quran) but still it seems it will cancel all the good deeds. You can stay away from one thing, but how to stay away from endless stuff that you mistake every day while you don't even pay attention...

Layth

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Re: Deleting good deeds
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2020, 03:32:36 AM »
Salam Ilma,

The verse you have quoted is a command. Therefore, if anyone was foolish enough to ignore God's command and do the opposite would no doubt incur God's wrath. I do not see sins as being unknown or hidden, rather, they are clearly spelled out by God and we simply have to steer clear of all the "don'ts".
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)