Author Topic: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan  (Read 3163 times)

huruf

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2020, 03:07:33 AM »
Thank you, Enquiry, for your politeness and interest.

This is one question where, I feel, we are put on the spot for answering things which we cannot know. We all will get Justice, let us pray that we also get compassion. For one Justice cannot wrong anybody. It would be emotionnally inadmissible that people who have suffered very much from wrongs or perscution, should not be after death get a redressing, a tender embrace which tells them that they will not suffer any more, that all that is behind, that life will be tender and beautiful after that.
As to the persecutors and evil, Justice will pour on them what they have poured on others till they know what Justice is, Justice is knowledge and understanding that nothing that we issue will not come bac to us, either on this life or in the next. Can the realisation of one's own evil take eternity? No sould can survive that. Compassion, Peace, As-Salaam is another name of God, through justice will come peace, Salaam, we pay our debts, we get the return of our own eel so we can cleanse ourselves. Better do it in this life, because our hell, the one we have erected for ourselves, is no joke, even if it lasts but ten minutes.

May God, redeem us in this life and ask his forgiveness, for all and all is creatures.

Salaam 

ayman

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2020, 06:41:38 PM »
Peace Enquiry,

Hope everyone is well! I have a question. In my deen, there is always one part, one place that someone can put me in my place and I don't know what to answer.

I am not sure what you mean by "deen". It is a common noun that should be translated. It means obligation. Our only obligation is peacemaking.

Quote
And that's the question of hell and heaven. Hassan Redwan is an ex-muslim. I hate how logical he sounds in his videos lol. I went through the steps:
- God creates mankind
- God asks if mankind wants free will

Everything in the universe has free will. The trust was offered to everything in the heavens and the earth and they CHOSE to not accept it while mankind CHOSE to accept it. So everything had free will and it was certainly not what was offered.

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- We accept, and now we transgressed.

We transgressed by allowing our fantasy (jinn) to control us instead of us controlling it and making it submit like it was supposed to. While the fantasy is our creative force, it is also the only source of falsehood in the universe. Thus we transgressed against the truth. The god is the truth.

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- God sends us down makes us witness that he is the only God
- On earth, some of us remember this and some of us choose to ignore it.

Some of us make their fantasy submit to them while most of us follow their fantasies. Those who remember the truth and make their fantasy (the only source of falsehood) submit to them naturally serve the truth (the god).

We accepted to be leaders of the earth. We are not very good leaders of the earth if she shed blood instead of make peace (our true obligation).

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- Those who remember and act will go to heaven, those who ignore and act opposite the message of God will go to hell.

Those who remember and control their fantasy and make it submit, their fantasy will be given water (life) and those who ignore and are controlled by their fantasy will be stuck in the worst thing they can fantasize (hell).   

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A part of these steps elude me: Parties engaging a contract must be aware of the consequences of breaching the contract. Did God ask: Do u want to be created? If so, then these are the rules and consequences. But I will ignore this fact, and say: Well, if one is created, one is in eternal bliss if he or she is in the presence of God, why would you aks? Can't you see that it is His infinite mercy and gift?

Everything in the universe is created with the truth. So naturally (contract or not) we are to serve the truth. A natural rule that goes without saying is that we should not serve falsehood. The human fantasy is the only source of falsehood in the universe. We serve the truth by making our fantasy (jinn) submit to us like it was supposed to the first time.
 
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How on earth can we answer the hell-forever part? The eternal hell. The only time I can justify hell if one of us AGREED to be created and AGREED to participate in God's trial.

Hell is fueled by the fantasies (jinn). It is a state and is not an actual physical place. It is a state of remaining stuck in our worst fantasies and we are unable to move to the next phase of creation since the god creates only with the truth. In the new phase of creation, the good fantasies that submitted to us will be given water (the ingredient of life) and will  become new life forms (call this heaven). This is all natural and expected.

Those stuck in this state will remain as long as the heavens and earth remain. Again, this is natural since the heavens and earth were created with the truth and bad false fantasies cannot be given life in the god's creation:

16:3. He created the heavens and the earth with the truth be he exalted above what they set as partner 

Peace,

Ayman

youmu

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2020, 02:51:39 AM »
strawman argument that,
if you can show me an instance of god asking us if we want free will please do.
at least i've never found it.
as far as i understand everything has free will. especially angels/controllers
tell me what God said to heavens and the earth when he created them.
فَقَالَ لَهَا وَلِلْأَرْضِ ائْتِيَا طَوْعًا أَوْ كَرْهًا قَالَتَا أَتَيْنَا طَائِعِينَ
41:11
also
the main contract i know of is if we are believers and do good work (basically being mature) then we will go to heaven. but if we are not, hell is the place.

as for forever hell part
i guess that's the severity of our job
being خليفة في الارض
we don't do stuff on whims and desires. we do them with truth.


- God creates mankind
- we are his servants willingly or not.
- we trangress but he also forgives.
- god sends us down so we'll be mature.

 وَأَنَّا لَا نَدْرِي أَشَرٌّ أُرِيدَ بِمَن فِي الْأَرْضِ أَمْ أَرَادَ بِهِمْ رَبُّهُمْ رَشَدًا
72:10

- on earth some us want to be mature, but some don't even take that into consideration. that's basically trangression.
- God owns the day of the judgement. and he told us how to get into heaven.


Enquiry

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2020, 12:52:14 PM »
Peace Enquiry,

I am not sure what you mean by "deen". It is a common noun that should be translated. It means obligation. Our only obligation is peacemaking.

Everything in the universe has free will. The trust was offered to everything in the heavens and the earth and they CHOSE to not accept it while mankind CHOSE to accept it. So everything had free will and it was certainly not what was offered.

We transgressed by allowing our fantasy (jinn) to control us instead of us controlling it and making it submit like it was supposed to. While the fantasy is our creative force, it is also the only source of falsehood in the universe. Thus we transgressed against the truth. The god is the truth.

Some of us make their fantasy submit to them while most of us follow their fantasies. Those who remember the truth and make their fantasy (the only source of falsehood) submit to them naturally serve the truth (the god).

We accepted to be leaders of the earth. We are not very good leaders of the earth if she shed blood instead of make peace (our true obligation).

Those who remember and control their fantasy and make it submit, their fantasy will be given water (life) and those who ignore and are controlled by their fantasy will be stuck in the worst thing they can fantasize (hell).   

Everything in the universe is created with the truth. So naturally (contract or not) we are to serve the truth. A natural rule that goes without saying is that we should not serve falsehood. The human fantasy is the only source of falsehood in the universe. We serve the truth by making our fantasy (jinn) submit to us like it was supposed to the first time.
 
Hell is fueled by the fantasies (jinn). It is a state and is not an actual physical place. It is a state of remaining stuck in our worst fantasies and we are unable to move to the next phase of creation since the god creates only with the truth. In the new phase of creation, the good fantasies that submitted to us will be given water (the ingredient of life) and will  become new life forms (call this heaven). This is all natural and expected.

Those stuck in this state will remain as long as the heavens and earth remain. Again, this is natural since the heavens and earth were created with the truth and bad false fantasies cannot be given life in the god's creation:

16:3. He created the heavens and the earth with the truth be he exalted above what they set as partner 

Peace,

Ayman

Salam brother Ayman,

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer these questions. They can be tricky and complicated sometimes. Your perspective on this issue is certainly interesting.

Peace

Enquiry

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2020, 12:56:43 PM »
strawman argument that,
if you can show me an instance of god asking us if we want free will please do.
at least i've never found it.
as far as i understand everything has free will. especially angels/controllers
tell me what God said to heavens and the earth when he created them.
فَقَالَ لَهَا وَلِلْأَرْضِ ائْتِيَا طَوْعًا أَوْ كَرْهًا قَالَتَا أَتَيْنَا طَائِعِينَ
41:11
also
the main contract i know of is if we are believers and do good work (basically being mature) then we will go to heaven. but if we are not, hell is the place.

as for forever hell part
i guess that's the severity of our job
being خليفة في الارض
we don't do stuff on whims and desires. we do them with truth.


- God creates mankind
- we are his servants willingly or not.
- we trangress but he also forgives.
- god sends us down so we'll be mature.

 وَأَنَّا لَا نَدْرِي أَشَرٌّ أُرِيدَ بِمَن فِي الْأَرْضِ أَمْ أَرَادَ بِهِمْ رَبُّهُمْ رَشَدًا
72:10

- on earth some us want to be mature, but some don't even take that into consideration. that's basically trangression.
- God owns the day of the judgement. and he told us how to get into heaven.

Peace Youmu,

Thank you for your perspective on this issue. Debating this topic can get very tedious and with lots of details. But people like Redwan, they don't really deal with nuances and details. They're very straight to the point: Why would God create a being, knowing its going to Hell...FOREVER? It's only in this regard that even the most experienced (in knowledge about God's system) have hard time explaining.

Thank you

Peace

good logic

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2020, 03:25:06 PM »
Peace All.
i want to attempt to answer this quote:
"Why would God create a being, knowing its going to Hell...FOREVER? It's only in this regard that even the most experienced (in knowledge about God's system) have hard time explaining."

 Or at least explain this from my understanding of Qoran s point of view on this subject .
To do this, I will start by posing some relevant questions.
-Why does GOD create anything at all?
-What does GOD create?
-What are the possibilities available for the created?

Qoran tells us that GOD has a reason/or reasons for creating, we may not know all of them but we know that GOD  has all the right reasons through GOD s attributes.
All creations go through experiences. How many is also unknown to us. But this present experience we are having is as "humans".Qoran tells us we had an experience as" another type of creation" before this.
This means that we did not stay in that experience for ever. So how long is our forever for "hell"?
[f GOD created everything to go to "heaven for ever" and there was another possibility/choice,then GOD would have  given everything one experience only and simply means that GOD has created "robots" and all were forced all to "go to heaven"..

Qoran tells us that we are well equipped to go through this human experience. He has prepare us well with a brain,eyes ears and gave us an instinct to recognise good and evil. He also sent us a message explaining the rules and has detailed for us the two ways we are free to choose:
Hell Or Heaven.
We have no idea what they will be like in reality nor what is their eternity. GOD has a very good reason for doing this. Our past experience has got us here , this new experience and we move on to our next experience.
So we need to make our own choice, The way is clear and so is the warning of the wrong choice.

To me, GOD created beings to have their own experience going through the different phases of where they put themselves through each category.
We do not know what hell is really like and we do not know how long is forever. But GOD wants to spare us that difficult experience that some of us will  put themselves in.
It is up to us to skip that "horrible experience" as allegorically described and choose the other alternative .
All we know is that we cannot say we have not been warned.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
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imrankhawaja

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2020, 06:05:35 PM »
The concept of HELL is interconnected with the factor of FEAR and CONTROLLING.

Its interesting when we examine it under different situations lem me explain by a situation in hand.

There are 6 people, 5 on one side and 1 on other side of a ROD/STICK/WIRE. And all of it is controlled by a CONTROLLER.

Now there is a choice to save one side whichever you wana save?
Most probablly controller try to save the 5 people side sacrificing one of them.

If controller have a choice to save both sides he will do it without thinking a second.

All nations and all religions and their models of hell will b filled by the opposite party.

Examples are like this majority will gona go to hell.

NOW seeing everything before it happened and create a situation in which not only 5 but perhaps more than 5 billion trillion will go to hell does it make sense? For someone who can fully control the situation, or if its a faulty creation he can stop creating it first hand? In this way he can save billions?

These question are signs to re-think about WHAT creator really will do VS what people/books said creator will do?

good logic

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2020, 08:28:41 AM »
The concept of hell is no different from the concept of other experiences  like this life experience.

How do we know that GOD has not warned us in our past experience about this life?
Or simply we cannot remember?
Let s say GOD has warned us about this experience in our past life,what would the warning be like?
I would say similar to what hell is described to us now to the majority. Are not the majority living a "hell like" life?

May be the Angels have saved themselves from this experience?
It seems  they have since they are having a different experience,why not?

What about the animals and other creations? Why are they in  a different experience in this life than us humans? 
There must be a good reason for it if we believe GOD is just and fair.

We need to reflect on two things:
1- Is there a way out of the "hell" experience?
2-Why worry or fear then?
GOD bless.
Peace.
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imrankhawaja

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2020, 02:31:57 PM »
Its not that simple how it looks i struggle myself figuring out that concept.

As i was telling earlier examine a situation can help solving lot of things.

Another situation imagine XYZ a source of creation, created something like his art work to place a conscious soul by his own master source.

Now the source of creation somehow or other interlinked with creation itself hence putting the creation in hell means source will also experience at more higher level the law of pain/suffering.

Example parents and kids are connected through a liquid and in their mind they are very connected with each other upon mistake a father burn his kid and then he may not feel physical pain but mentally he will struggle thinking his kid is burning and its he who let him burn. Its he who bring him in this world at first hand.

@ role of creator and what people said about creator love his creation way more than worldly parents and connected way more detailed than worldly parent so will creator also suffer through what he creates at first place?

I have a body my body is like a full universe and pain in one part of my body keep my whole body at suffer/un-REST mode. Some of my body parts do mistakes and will i able To punish my body parts with fire? As you taking steps further the only thing left behind is source of creation in end. it appears creator himself punishing his interconnected parts in fire that does not really make sense?

Source of everything ended in him so lets rewind
STAGES

 human => parents => evolution stages ======>single cell ====> planet===>universe ===>unknown stages and unknown material =====> finally source of creation
 
The ending of everything leads to its source so how its possible source can punish his own creation/ideas/spirt/rooh whatever stoke u wana play.


NOTE things about past life or what we dnt remember does not really matter as the source of creation remembers it all. Actual responsibility is on the one who controls the memory not other way round.





good logic

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2020, 07:01:53 AM »
Is the parent controlling the child?
If the child chooses a  wrong path and takes the decision to go through it, the parent may not agree or like it, but they will not be accountable/responsible. How can the parent be blamed if they prepared the child and shown them clearly the best path?

The fact that the wrong path is clearly defined from the wrong path gives each individual the responsibility.
Of course the parent will prefer the child to make the right decisions  and choose the right path. The parent will also know that the two paths lead to two different experiences and know  that nothing can be done to change the outcome.

Just like we cannot change the laws GOD made in our universe, we cannot change any future experience we are put through in the future . Our  present experience determines our future one elsewhere.
GOD knows why He creates, Why He repeats the creation cycles and who deserves what experiences He chooses for them.

The created are given clear guidelines and prepared well to go through their experience. .Where will they put themselves next is up to them.

For example, we have chosen the "responsibility this time as humans. Why should the source-GOD- be responsible?
GOD bless.
Peace.
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