Author Topic: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan  (Read 2954 times)

Enquiry

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Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« on: May 12, 2020, 05:30:07 PM »
Peace,

Hope everyone is well! I have a question. In my deen, there is always one part, one place that someone can put me in my place and I don't know what to answer.
And that's the question of hell and heaven. Hassan Redwan is an ex-muslim. I hate how logical he sounds in his videos lol. I went through the steps:
- God creates mankind
- God asks if mankind wants free will
- We accept, and now we transgressed.
- God sends us down makes us witness that he is the only God
- On earth, some of us remember this and some of us choose to ignore it.
- Those who remember and act will go to heaven, those who ignore and act opposite the message of God will go to hell.

A part of these steps elude me: Parties engaging a contract must be aware of the consequences of breaching the contract. Did God ask: Do u want to be created? If so, then these are the rules and consequences. But I will ignore this fact, and say: Well, if one is created, one is in eternal bliss if he or she is in the presence of God, why would you aks? Can't you see that it is His infinite mercy and gift?

How on earth can we answer the hell-forever part? The eternal hell. The only time I can justify hell if one of us AGREED to be created and AGREED to participate in God's trial.

This guy has lots of questions about God's punishment in his 3 min video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtTwYL2t8J0&list=UUJ0sIFZ0VnZ5ta9vxC9PyUA&index=22

Please see this video, and if you can share your opinion/facts.


Peace


huruf

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2020, 11:42:31 PM »
Only God is eternal, there is nothing like Him, and everything and everyone returns to Him.

It is in a sense rediculous that we pontificte on nothing less than Eternity. We are not even able to conceive of such a thing. It is a thought concept but that we do not conceive.

On the other hand God is al 3adl, the Justice. That is one of His names in the Qur'an. Suppose the worst person ever to exist. Suppose that person lived 150 years. ¿What kind of justice is that that for a time of 150 and fifty years punishes you, not one hundred and fifty years, but forever? I douvt that even bad person would even think of doing that to anybody. And we attribute that to God, keep saying that He is compassionate, and think that it is sound? Not even the worst kind would conceive of tormenting to such glactic magnitude, but we hang it on God. .

No wonder that kind of mentality puts off anybody.

Salaam

Jafar

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2020, 02:30:55 AM »
The infinite Creator do not put or forced any of His children to "hell".
It's actually the children that sometimes prefer "hell" as he sees "hell" as "heaven" for him.

In the same manner as no parent will ever punished their own children with "drug addiction", it's the children who often sees "drug addiction" as heaven and uses the allowance he got from his parent to buy drugs.

Jesus did explained this in a beautiful manner using a parable:

Parable of the Prodigal Son

“There was a man who had two sons. The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them. Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living.

After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ So he got up and went to his father.

But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate!"







good logic

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2020, 07:34:34 AM »
GOD did not create Mankind.
First GOD created souls to earn their destiny.GOD did not create souls with His chosen destiny for them. i.e "robots" ,
With this freedom comes the consequence.
After the feud between the souls(because of this freedom ). The rebelious ones(Not accepted GOD s authority) were gathered and given a second chance  to redeem themselves
This is when all the souls were seperated into different groups (stratified0:
Angels.(Did not take part in the rebellion)
Animmals/other creations.
Humans
Jinns

The Amana was again given to the rebeliuos souls as a final chance . Humans and Jinns accepted it  The other rebelious souls rejected free will and decided to repent and redeem themselves.
GOD  made a covenant with Mankind which they agreed to-GOD Alone as authority- The main issue of the rebellion earlier.
GOD then created Mankind and created the universe and provided the earth for them as a place for this final chance .
Here we are again shaping/earning our destiny.
 The million dollar question:
Why would GOD choose for His creation?
The fair way is for you and I and everyone else to put ourselves where we deserve to be. So long as we are aware of the rules consequences.. Those whose life has been cut short before the age of responsibility or are not capable have already declined the amana and are redeemed.
GOD does not put anyone anywhere they do not want to be. We put ourselves where we deserve to be.
GOD is Merciful and would prefer everyone to be redeemed back to His kingdom.
GOD bless.
Peace
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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

Layth

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2020, 10:47:47 PM »
Salam Enquiry,

The question of God sending people to Hell is a very relevant one that deters many people from accepting religion (any religion) as they figure that a God that punishes people simply for not worshiping/serving Him cannot be all that good!

I would ask that you read the below article on Hell which might change the entire perspective of the discussion:

https://www.free-minds.org/judgement-day-hell-earth
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Enquiry

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2020, 12:10:10 AM »
Only God is eternal, there is nothing like Him, and everything and everyone returns to Him.

It is in a sense rediculous that we pontificte on nothing less than Eternity. We are not even able to conceive of such a thing. It is a thought concept but that we do not conceive.

On the other hand God is al 3adl, the Justice. That is one of His names in the Qur'an. Suppose the worst person ever to exist. Suppose that person lived 150 years. ¿What kind of justice is that that for a time of 150 and fifty years punishes you, not one hundred and fifty years, but forever? I douvt that even bad person would even think of doing that to anybody. And we attribute that to God, keep saying that He is compassionate, and think that it is sound? Not even the worst kind would conceive of tormenting to such glactic magnitude, but we hang it on God. .

No wonder that kind of mentality puts off anybody.

Salaam

Peace Huruf,

Thank you so much for your input. I love your description of God. We are truly incapable of understanding Him. Let us hope that He will grace us with Hs infinite mercy and protection.

Peace.

Enquiry

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2020, 12:15:30 AM »
The infinite Creator do not put or forced any of His children to "hell".
It's actually the children that sometimes prefer "hell" as he sees "hell" as "heaven" for him.

In the same manner as no parent will ever punished their own children with "drug addiction", it's the children who often sees "drug addiction" as heaven and uses the allowance he got from his parent to buy drugs.

Jesus did explained this in a beautiful manner using a parable:

Parable of the Prodigal Son

“There was a man who had two sons. The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them. Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living.

After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ So he got up and went to his father.

But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate!"


Peace Jafar,

Thank you for ur valuable and note worthy verses. I love how we all from different backgrounds are always working hard in gaining knowledge in understanding God. May we all be in jubilation on the J-Day.

Peace.

Enquiry

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2020, 12:19:54 AM »
GOD did not create Mankind.
First GOD created souls to earn their destiny.GOD did not create souls with His chosen destiny for them. i.e "robots" ,
With this freedom comes the consequence.
After the feud between the souls(because of this freedom ). The rebelious ones(Not accepted GOD s authority) were gathered and given a second chance  to redeem themselves
This is when all the souls were seperated into different groups (stratified0:
Angels.(Did not take part in the rebellion)
Animmals/other creations.
Humans
Jinns

The Amana was again given to the rebeliuos souls as a final chance . Humans and Jinns accepted it  The other rebelious souls rejected free will and decided to repent and redeem themselves.
GOD  made a covenant with Mankind which they agreed to-GOD Alone as authority- The main issue of the rebellion earlier.
GOD then created Mankind and created the universe and provided the earth for them as a place for this final chance .
Here we are again shaping/earning our destiny.
 The million dollar question:
Why would GOD choose for His creation?
The fair way is for you and I and everyone else to put ourselves where we deserve to be. So long as we are aware of the rules consequences.. Those whose life has been cut short before the age of responsibility or are not capable have already declined the amana and are redeemed.
GOD does not put anyone anywhere they do not want to be. We put ourselves where we deserve to be.
GOD is Merciful and would prefer everyone to be redeemed back to His kingdom.
GOD bless.
Peace

Peace Good logic,

Thank you for your viewpoint. Your analysis is correct in many ways. The one sentence that struck a chord with me was:  "We put ourselves where we deserve to be."
It's very scary sometimes how lost we can get, and we don't even perceive it. Hopefully God will give each and everyone of us the strength to do the right thing.

Peace.

Enquiry

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2020, 12:33:01 AM »
Salam Enquiry,

The question of God sending people to Hell is a very relevant one that deters many people from accepting religion (any religion) as they figure that a God that punishes people simply for not worshiping/serving Him cannot be all that good!

I would ask that you read the below article on Hell which might change the entire perspective of the discussion:

https://www.free-minds.org/judgement-day-hell-earth

Peace Layth,

Thank you so much for your link. I did check it out. I must say that it is quite frightening on reading the descriptions of J-Day. It boils down to "God will not save the arrogant, wicked, selfish, unthankful who serve others besides Him…Rather, He will save the kind, humble, generous, and thankful who acknowledge Him and only Him as the One true Lord and Master.

May God shield us and our progeny from the horrors of the inevitable Day…"

Let us hope we'll be the righteous ones and deserving of His protection.


Peace.

Jafar

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Re: Hell forever? Hassan Redwan
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2020, 12:58:39 AM »
Thank you for ur valuable and note worthy verses. I love how we all from different backgrounds are always working hard in gaining knowledge in understanding God. May we all be in jubilation on the J-Day.

You're welcome

God was, is and will always gives you strength and guidance.
No matter what you do, right or wrong, and there's no end.
It's sometimes you who decided to refuse and block the strength and guidance.

Coming back to the 'drug addicted child' metaphor, understand that the pattern of the 'drug dealer' is always consistent, they employ PRIDE, LIES, GUILT and FEAR to maintain the illusion. In order to keep the drug addicted child from returning to his father, the drug dealer will instill the following dogmas:

1. You are much better than everyone else, you're among the 'chosen people' who can enjoy the privilege of drugs. Your life is heaven you're are walking the 'straight path' where others are 'lead astray'. PRIDE + LIES

2. You have performed 'unforgivable sins' to your father, because you've wasted your allowances not on books and university fee as you have told him but on drugs instead! GUILT

3. Don't leave us and return back to your father, Your father will judge you and torture you with horrible punishment until all eternity because you've lied to him and performed horrible and unforgivable sins. GUILT + LIES + FEAR

Only through conquering his fear and shedding his own pride, the child will be able to cut through the illusion created by the drug dealer. His father will always awaited his return home and always ready to forgive him and accept him back, no matter how long he need to wait : 1 year, 100 years, 10,000 years, 1 billion years. There's no end.
That's an example of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE of parenthood.