Author Topic: Where is the original copy of Quran?  (Read 1780 times)

Asifzaheer

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Karma +0/-0
Where is the original copy of Quran?
« on: May 05, 2020, 11:22:14 AM »
Salaam alaikum to all.
As we believe that Quran is the word of God. And also it is proven within from Quran that Muhammad(s) wrote down the Quran. Then my Question is where is THAT Quran which our nabi hand over to the sahabas before departure?
And if we believe the hadith story that later sahaba colected and compiled and is now somewhere in turkey museum then is not a unfair treatment from God and Muhammad(s) side??

Thanx and wasalaam

good logic

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 5457
  • Karma +4/-1
Re: Where is the original copy of Quran?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2020, 02:41:16 PM »
Everyone is looking for that copy?.
Like here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iaSY4BB-2Q

GOD bless you.
Peace
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1831
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Where is the original copy of Quran?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2020, 12:30:34 AM »
Salaam alaikum to all.
As we believe that Quran is the word of God. And also it is proven within from Quran that Muhammad(s) wrote down the Quran. Then my Question is where is THAT Quran which our nabi hand over to the sahabas before departure?
And if we believe the hadith story that later sahaba colected and compiled and is now somewhere in turkey museum then is not a unfair treatment from God and Muhammad(s) side??

Thanx and wasalaam

peace, the prophet peace upon him never wrote it; that was an accusation by the deniers (25:4-6).

29:48 وما and not كنت did thou تتلوا recite ye of من from قبله before it من from/any كتب book ولا and not تخطه thou write it بىمىنك with right hand your اذا that case لارتب surely doubts المبطلون the falsifiers

80:11 كلا nay indeed انها indeed it تذكره reminder
80:12 فمن so who شا wills ذكره heeds it
80:13 فى in صحف scrolls مكرمه honorable
80:14 مرفوعه exalted مطهره pure
80:15 باىدى by hands سفره scribes
80:16 كرام noble برره dutiful


It was a recitation e.g. قل qul/say later written by scribes; these are a few of the oldest manuscripts.

Gotthelf Bergsträßer Archive: "Saray Medina 1a" (= Istanbul, Topkapı Sarayı Müzesi: M 1) before 800 CE
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1?handschrift=56



Sanaa, Dār al-Maḫṭūṭāt: DAM 01-32.1 before 800 CE
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/26/vers/227?handschrift=222
notice order was changed what is now ch 37 used to be ch 27



The British Library’s oldest Qur’ān manuscript, Or.2165, dating 701 to 800 CE
http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/asian-and-african/2016/04/the-british-librarys-oldest-quran-manuscript-now-online.html



Berlin, State Library: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
210 fol., Approx. 85% of the total text, originally approx. 245-250 fol. 662-765, CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/163



Tübingen, University Library: Ma VI 165 77 sheets - 649-675, CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/25/vers/5?handschrift=107



Berlin, State Library: ms.or.fol. 4313
606-652, CE (95.4%) [¹⁴C dating by Coranica]
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/5/vers/1/handschrift/56



Birmingham, Cadbury Research Library (University of Birmingham):
Islamic Arabic 1572 9 sheets - fol. 1 and 7 (= 1572a): 568-645, CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1?handschrift=281




The Sardar

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1537
  • Karma +2/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Where is the original copy of Quran?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2020, 01:22:20 AM »
Is the last picture Qaf 47 manuscript Noon?

jkhan

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1345
  • Karma +4/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: Where is the original copy of Quran?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2020, 01:34:11 AM »
peace, the prophet peace upon him never wrote it; that was an accusation by the deniers (25:4-6).

29:48 وما and not كنت did thou تتلوا recite ye of من from قبله before it من from/any كتب book ولا and not تخطه thou write it بىمىنك with right hand your اذا that case لارتب surely doubts المبطلون the falsifiers

80:11 كلا nay indeed انها indeed it تذكره reminder
80:12 فمن so who شا wills ذكره heeds it
80:13 فى in صحف scrolls مكرمه honorable
80:14 مرفوعه exalted مطهره pure
80:15 باىدى by hands سفره scribes
80:16 كرام noble برره dutiful


It was a recitation e.g. قل qul/say later written by scribes; these are a few of the oldest manuscripts.

Gotthelf Bergsträßer Archive: "Saray Medina 1a" (= Istanbul, Topkapı Sarayı Müzesi: M 1) before 800 CE
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1?handschrift=56



Sanaa, Dār al-Maḫṭūṭāt: DAM 01-32.1 before 800 CE
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/26/vers/227?handschrift=222
notice order was changed what is now ch 37 used to be ch 27



The British Library’s oldest Qur’ān manuscript, Or.2165, dating 701 to 800 CE
http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/asian-and-african/2016/04/the-british-librarys-oldest-quran-manuscript-now-online.html



Berlin, State Library: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
210 fol., Approx. 85% of the total text, originally approx. 245-250 fol. 662-765, CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/163



Tübingen, University Library: Ma VI 165 77 sheets - 649-675, CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/25/vers/5?handschrift=107



Berlin, State Library: ms.or.fol. 4313
606-652, CE (95.4%) [¹⁴C dating by Coranica]
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/5/vers/1/handschrift/56



Birmingham, Cadbury Research Library (University of Birmingham):
Islamic Arabic 1572 9 sheets - fol. 1 and 7 (= 1572a): 568-645, CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1?handschrift=281


Peace...

I do agree with Asifzaheer in this case... His question is reasonable.. Where is the original Quran written by the Messenger.. But I am afraid we won't find it unless God will...

@ Noon
That's totally a prejudiced statement... Prophet did really wrote the Quran...  Disbelievers may complain things agaisnt him agaisnt the truth but not against general reality...  Such as when one cannot read and write they won't tell He has written...  That's not the aim of disbelievers.. Their aim is to nullify the Quran as a devine revelation.. 25:4-6 is clear.. Disbelievers said Prophet / Messenger invented .. Invented the Quran...  And they say a truth in anger... What they said MOHAMED has written down and it was dictated... But what is written down is a lie and invention.. They claim..
Here disbelievers aimed clearly targeting quran a lie and invention and not the ability of Muhamed to write and read and perceive . .. That's so obvious with context of the verse..

Further.. 29:48 is very much common sense... The word "BEFORE IT" is key.. Before what? Of course before Quran... Yes Muhamed never wrote before QURAN any scripture.. That's what God says.. But He wrote quran that also by his right hand..

This verse clearly indicates MOHAMED has not written any scripture until he wrote the Quran by his right hand ... So that is his first ever Devine book..

You failed to grasp common sense in the verse..
" I have never been to Russia or seen Russia BEFORE THIS " what does it mean bro?
Try some logic pls.. ..

69:44-45 "And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings, We would have seized him by the RIGHT hand;..."

why RIGHT here and in verse 29:48 as well when it comes to writing?

Asifzaheer

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Karma +0/-0
Re: Where is the original copy of Quran?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2020, 08:10:20 AM »
Peace...

I do agree with Asifzaheer in this case... His question is reasonable.. Where is the original Quran written by the Messenger.. But I am afraid we won't find it unless God will...

@ Noon
That's totally a prejudiced statement... Prophet did really wrote the Quran...  Disbelievers may complain things agaisnt him agaisnt the truth but not against general reality...  Such as when one cannot read and write they won't tell He has written...  That's not the aim of disbelievers.. Their aim is to nullify the Quran as a devine revelation.. 25:4-6 is clear.. Disbelievers said Prophet / Messenger invented .. Invented the Quran...  And they say a truth in anger... What they said MOHAMED has written down and it was dictated... But what is written down is a lie and invention.. They claim..
Here disbelievers aimed clearly targeting quran a lie and invention and not the ability of Muhamed to write and read and perceive . .. That's so obvious with context of the verse..

Further.. 29:48 is very much common sense... The word "BEFORE IT" is key.. Before what? Of course before Quran... Yes Muhamed never wrote before QURAN any scripture.. That's what God says.. But He wrote quran that also by his right hand..

This verse clearly indicates MOHAMED has not written any scripture until he wrote the Quran by his right hand ... So that is his first ever Devine book..

You failed to grasp common sense in the verse..
" I have never been to Russia or seen Russia BEFORE THIS " what does it mean bro?
Try some logic pls.. ..

69:44-45 "And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings, We would have seized him by the RIGHT hand;..."

why RIGHT here and in verse 29:48 as well when it comes to writing?

Thanx brother for ur insight.
Ayat 69:44-45: gives a very clear clue..


Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1831
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Where is the original copy of Quran?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2020, 09:56:16 AM »
@ Noon
25:4-6 is clear..  And they say a truth in anger...

Further.. 29:48 is very much common sense... The word "BEFORE IT" is key.. Before what? Of course before Quran... Yes Muhamed never wrote before QURAN any scripture.. That's what God says.. But He wrote quran that also by his right hand..

You failed to grasp common sense in the verse..

69:44-45 "And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings, We would have seized him by the RIGHT hand;..."

why RIGHT here and in verse 29:48 as well when it comes to writing?

^^^ contradiction, read exactly what it says learn difference speaking/reciting and writing.


29:47 وكذلك and like such انزلنا descends we of الىك to you الكتب the book ...
29:48
 وما and not كنت did thou تتلوا tatlu/recite ye of من from قبله before it (i.e. Quran) من any كتب book
 ولا and not تخطه takhuttuhu/thou write it (i.e. Quran) بىمىنك with right hand your

69:44 ولو and in case تقول taqawwala/speaketh علىنا against us بعض some الاقوىل the rumors/sayings
69:45 لاخذنا surely seizes we منه of him بالىمىن in/by the right hand
69:46 ثم furthermore لقطعنا surely sever we of منه from him الوتىن the aorta (main artery)


Is the last picture Qaf 47 manuscript Noon?

no different manuscript

Gotthelf Bergsträßer Archive: Cairo, National Library: qāf 47 606-652, CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/4/vers/11/handschrift/73/flip/1



peace!

jkhan

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1345
  • Karma +4/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: Where is the original copy of Quran?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2020, 04:46:32 PM »
^^^ contradiction, read exactly what it says learn difference speaking/reciting and writing.


29:47 وكذلك and like such انزلنا descends we of الىك to you الكتب the book ...
29:48
 وما and not كنت did thou تتلوا tatlu/recite ye of من from قبله before it (i.e. Quran) من any كتب book
 ولا and not تخطه takhuttuhu/thou write it (i.e. Quran) بىمىنك with right hand your

69:44 ولو and in case تقول taqawwala/speaketh علىنا against us بعض some الاقوىل the rumors/sayings
69:45 لاخذنا surely seizes we منه of him بالىمىن in/by the right hand
69:46 ثم furthermore لقطعنا surely sever we of منه from him الوتىن the aorta (main artery)


no different manuscript

Gotthelf Bergsträßer Archive: Cairo, National Library: qāf 47 606-652, CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/4/vers/11/handschrift/73/flip/1



peace!

Either you are not getting me or you are pretending... Anyhow thank you for your response... Intelligent will give thought as they always....
Peace

noshield30

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Karma +0/-0
Re: Where is the original copy of Quran?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2020, 11:04:20 PM »
As far as I know, it is either the Birmingham Quran manuscript or the Sanaa Manuscript that are the oldest discovered Quran in the world, albeit they are incomplete. Also that doesn't necessarily mean they would be the original either.