Author Topic: The lenght of the salat  (Read 3031 times)

ilma_bee

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The lenght of the salat
« on: April 27, 2020, 07:30:57 AM »
Esselamu aleykum everyone

I'd like to ask you guys, since the verse 17:78 says to pray from duluuk al shamsii untill qhasaqi layli, does it mean we have to litteraly stand all that time in prayer. Like, we can't pray for 40min, or 50min or one hour because it would be shortening and it would be praying only the part of this time? Thank you

Wakas

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2020, 08:22:48 AM »
peace,

In my view the time-range given in the Quran means observe the salat from A to B. This time-range is the expected, the norm, the recommended, however the time-ranges are given as an exemplar/model to follow.
One has to ask oneself what is the purpose of the timed-salat of the mumineen? Is it's purpose going to be diminished by reducing it by 10mins? Some days one will do more some days less. I take 73:20 as a guide also.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

ilma_bee

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2020, 09:16:40 AM »
Is there any verse that indicates that salat doesn't have to be performed from point A to point B? And the verse you mentioned is talking about the night standing. How do you see it in regards of the salat lenght? It's confusing now to me, because it seems like night prayer was obligate for all of them, but for some it was difficult and then God forgave them. Oh God, there is no end for my confusions :&

good logic

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2020, 09:34:35 AM »
Remember also that "Li" can mean "at".
So, 17:78 is saying At the decline of the sun that goes to Ghasaki Al Layl. Just like the rise of the sun starts at Ghsaki Al Leyl and carries on till Noon. Duluk Al Shams- the decline -starts at Noon and carries on till Ghasaki Al Leyl.
The sun rises from a minimum- Ghasaki Al Leyl- to a maxumun- Noon- then declines from the maximum to the minimum.
17;78 is saying  Aquimi The Salat at Noon, because the sun starts to decline at Noon  i.e  it is identifying identifying a time of the start of the decline  by Li Duluk Al Shams Ila Ghasaki Al Leyl. If the verse just said "Li Duluk Al Shams" one would ask which part of the decline?
Noon gives the time frame , like other verses, it does not give the lenght of the salat.
Why not?
This was discussed in the forum few days ago.

What is The Salat and its details ( like lenght, preservation...) is another matter.
GOD bless .
Peace.
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Wakas

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2020, 10:34:37 AM »
And the verse you mentioned is talking about the night standing. How do you see it in regards of the salat lenght? It's confusing now to me, because it seems like night prayer was obligate for all of them, but for some it was difficult and then God forgave them. Oh God, there is no end for my confusions :&

Please read chapter 73.

73:20 does not use "forgive".

http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

ilma_bee

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2020, 10:58:23 AM »
Wakas, I did check now again. Yes, it uses the word Tabe.. Could you please share your thoughts on this verse, how you see it (because you said you use it as a guide)..

ilma_bee

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2020, 11:03:55 AM »
Good logic, it's just not logical to me when I take all the verses about the salat that this dulook al shamsi means sun declining from the highest point in the noon.. Because other verses mention salatul isha by name  and then there are 3 privacy times for the believers, the last one of them is after salatul isha.. So it just makes sense that this salat is from that close period before the sunset till darkness of the night. If it was said to pray from noon till the night, then it would be too long to perform this prayer..

good logic

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2020, 12:15:33 PM »
Peace. ilma_bee
Here is my view about "the Salat"..
If it does not make sense to you, fair enough. Like you I was confused and I spent years looking:
There are different opinions on the Salat according to Qoran. It is either Zero, 2 , 3, or 5. The debates have been many and the views remain the same.
Here is my latest reply to this subject if you are interested:
This subject has been running on this forum and on multiple other forums for years.
I have read thousands of views ,most claiming they have an answer to:
1- Salat according to Qoran, its timing, contents and objective.

First let me make a clear statement to do with minimum salvation,as this is important for our priority:

I see the deen as a state of mind. A mind that is in tune / in a relation with GOD the creator and respects all the creation. A mind that follows the Sirat Al Mustaqueen as defined in 6{151-153.}

"Inna Deen Inda Allah Al Islam" and "Ihdina Tariq Al Mustaqueem"

It is also a choice. "La Ikraha Fi Deen" .GOD does not force this deen on anyone.
Fa Man Chaa Fal Umin Wa Man Chaa Falyakfur?"Whoever want to believe...and whoever want to disbelieve."

If one wants to become a Muslim ,then they should have no objection to following the best path instructed by GOD in Qoran, if they claim to follow Qoran/believe in it.

GOD does not expect people to pretend or to force themselves to do things they do not like or agree with. It is better if they were honest with themselves and only did things that make sense to them or things that they agree with.
That is better in the sight of GOD.
There is nothing wrong with having a private debate with GOD about all your doubts. GOD is listening.
If you want to take a journey with GOD .it is private and very personal between you and your creator.

If you want to go it alone or rely on others that is also your freedom of choice.. But you are accountable for having the faculties(eyes ears and brain) GOD gave you to use. If one misuses them they have only themselves to blame.

For me it is a no brainer. I do not see a way out except back to GOD at the end.
 So by choice and I am glad I realised this. I willingly decline my "Amana" other choice. I submit to the Lord of the universe and seek his friendship, light and guidance direct .
I do not see any problems with following the best path from Qoran s instruction. GOD has made his deen easy once the trial period of "making the decision" to enter into an agreement with the creator is over After all ,GOD will want to "try you" if you mean it or not!!!.
Of course my human instinct is fighting this surrender daily but I cannot go back on my covenant/agreement .

In short we are free but people make a problem for themselves by conforming to things they doubt or do not make sense to them.
Your decision alone is required ,nobody else will bare your burden whether you rely on them or not.
GOD guides and teaches all the true believers.

Coming back to "The Salat" , I have spent years investigating many views, especially those views from the specific "Qoran alone"  brothers and sistyers. All asking " where can I find how  and when to do "The Salat" from Qoran?. Yet after giving their views most fail to find the meaning and details of their claims using Qoran, which  they were asking the exact thing  in the first place.
The only exception that had a solid argument that was coherent and used all Qoran in context about "the salat" was this-according to my research- :
https://submission.org/Where_can_we_find_Salah.html

 The questions from everyone will keep coming about "The salat like:

I wonder if someone has no limbs ,how they going to do it?.
I wonder if someone has an emergency to attend or forgets... , how are they going to do it?.
I wonder if someone is on the moon, how are they going to do it.?
I wonder if someone is at the north pole, how are they going to do it?
...etc.
All these have been taken care of in Qoran, if one is not capable or enable to be on earth or...Then they are excused. They do it in their head if they can or not at all. GOD is forgiver most merciful.

The deen is not about rules and regulations ,it is about intentions , good morals and good work first and foremost.
The other helping items are there for the ones that can.. Each needs to follow GOD s instructions to the best of their abilities.
We cannot fool GOD or look for excuses. GOD is aware of each one of us . whether we are capable, where we are and whether we hear and obey him .
Or do you think we are left without GOD distinguishing our honesty and true intentions? Therefore you do what you can to the best of your knowledge!

"The Salat" , sawm, Zakat, ...etc are a helping hand from GOD to grow our souls more for thiose who wish to come even closer to GOD.

Our views, can only look "without errors" to us, Each thinking  that their " cleverness and logic of their Qoran study" has worked.
GOD  s logic is not our logic, that is why GOD keeps sending messengers.
Is there more to come from Qoran?
I will say yes ,until GOD decides the end for all of us
If you want to do "the salat" search for your own version or carry on with what you have. You have the means to decide for yourself..
By the way brother I also do 5 per day.
GOD bless you.
Peace
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

good logic

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2020, 01:50:25 PM »
Peace
Coming back to what you say here,quote:
.."If it was said to pray from noon till the night, then it would be too long to perform this prayer"

If you read again my first post you will see that I calarified the Salat was to be done at Noon only , the start of the decline that goes towards ghasaky Al leyl.., the time frame is Noon period and not from Noon to dark. You misunderstood me .17:78 is not giving us the lenght of the Salat. GOD is precise with words. As for time frame  the Arabic would have been " Bayna duluk Al Shams Wa ghasaki Al Leyl- not what 17:78 said.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

ilma_bee

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2020, 02:03:07 PM »
Good logic, I'm not a brother ;D lol
Anyway, are you saying that this ila ghasaqi leyli means towards the night? Like, pray at the noon (which goes) towards the night. I'm not sure if that word can have that meaning. So when would this prayer time end?