Author Topic: A article who makes claims that hadith was made during the time of the prophet.  (Read 559 times)

The Sardar

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Salam/Peace everyone. I hope everyone is doing well in these troubling times. I came across a long article about the claim that that hadith was written during the time of Prophet Muhammad. I wonder if anyone could respond to this:

https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_the_argument_that_the_hadith_have_been_collected_200_years_after_the_death_of_the_prophet_and_therefore_are_unreliable_

Salam/Peace.

I wonder if there really was any hadith manuscripts of Bukhari that were discovered that proven to be from 600s because i have not seen one right now.

reel

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Quote
I wonder if there really was any hadith manuscripts of Bukhari that were discovered that proven to be from 600s because i have not seen one right now.

Me too, still waiting. But then again, what difference does it make?
I noticed in his long article he is relying on the words of other "people".
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

The Sardar

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A side question, the Bukhari & Co hadiths are not the original, atleast the Sahih Bukhari that i know of.

The Sardar

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There is a website, on notes on the Hadith literature, this is a page on the earliest manuscripts of Sahih Bukhari:

http://ahadithnotes.com/archives/1493

The earliest one is Al-Qābisī’s manuscript which is from 353 AH which is 964 AD. So that's the answer my own side question.

Hopefully someone will respond to this lengthy article.

Layth

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Salam.

I say it’s a matter of “authority” not “authenticity”.

If you believe the prophet had “authority” to make religious decrees outside the Quran, then finding such commands would give them credibility regardless of the time they were found in - this it becomes an issue of “authenticity”.

If you believe the Prophet only delivered the Quran and all else was his opinions without religious “authority”, then the matter you ask about is resolved...

`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Wakas

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The earliest one is Al-Qābisī’s manuscript which is from 353 AH which is 964 AD. So that's the answer my own side question.


That's not what the article says, quote:

Quote
Recently, a secondary copy of al-Qābisī’s recension has been discovered. Few details have been shared about the manuscript, but what we know so far is that it was transcribed in the first half of the 9th century AH, if not earlier...

So it depends on what you mean: if you meant a COPY of an earlier work then yes you could say what you said.

That article does not mention carbon-dated manuscripts for example.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

The Sardar

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Oh my mistake brother Wakas. I must have read wrong. Apologies.

Anyway, Wakas what do you think of the article about the hadith transmissions, making claims about it was recorded during the Prophet's timeline? I hope i didn't miss out anything this time.

good logic

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Peace The Sardar.
 You request, quote:
Hopefully someone will respond to this lengthy article.

How do you respond to an article that is not coherent and clear in its form?
You expect evidence exibits, clear headings of particular book/parchment...from its time.
The author goes on explaining his arguments relying on similar arguments of "fallacy repetition of falsehood/non evidenced talk".
For example where are the following;
1- Hadith dictated and left by the prophet  to be passed on?
2-Parchment similar to Qoran that have been instructed by the prophet to be put together and preached like Qoran?
3-Any mention of such material in Qoran?
4- Any material preached during the life of the prophet besides the Qoran?

Therefore there is nothing to answer to that is worthy of an answer.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Wakas

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Anyway, Wakas what do you think of the article about the hadith transmissions, making claims about it was recorded during the Prophet's timeline? I hope i didn't miss out anything this time.

Firstly, there are CLAIMS that there were some personal written hadith collections (known as "sahifa", plural "suhuf") but to my knowledge no such collections have survived. Secondly, within these CLAIMS it is clear that they were not exclusively hadith from the prophet as they included references to what the caliphs/companions said/did etc.
I recommend: http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htm

This video goes into detail about how we received Bukhari's collection.
This article discusses the commonly claimed earliest surviving hadith collection.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Layth

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This is a good article by Aisha Musa that is relevant to the topic: https://free-minds.org/hadith-question-authenticity
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)