Author Topic: Unchanged Qur'an  (Read 1272 times)

Jacob

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Unchanged Qur'an
« on: April 21, 2020, 10:52:22 AM »
Salaam,
I chanced upon this article.

https://www.answering-islam.org/authors/oskar/palimpsest.html

Although it clearly suggests one of those missionary efforts, I am keen to know if anyone has any further knowledge on the topic.

The Sardar

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1533
  • Karma +2/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Unchanged Qur'an
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2020, 01:11:05 AM »
Salam/Peace brother Jacob  :group:  :group:

I think Noon Waalqalami have done work on old manuscripts of the Qur'an:

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607061.0

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609925.

You can ask brother Noon Waalqalami more on this since he has more knowlegde on the ancient manuscripts of the Qur'an, especially on diacritics, vowel marks and textual words.

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Unchanged Qur'an
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2020, 12:21:53 AM »
Salaam,
I chanced upon this article.

https://www.answering-islam.org/authors/oskar/palimpsest.html

Although it clearly suggests one of those missionary efforts, I am keen to know if anyone has any further knowledge on the topic.

peace Jacob, most scribal corruption, errors, accidental changes made while copying texts e.g. omission, addition, transposition, alteration, words missing etc., are one-offs; use context/cross-reference and confirm with other old manuscripts exceptions being alifs in some words due to different standards.

Quote
The finishing letter, ‘Alif’, in ‘yatawallaw’, ‘they turn away’, found in today’s standard text (9:74) of the Quran is missing in the early manuscript under discussion, as indicated by the empty box with a black frame above. Moreover, in the the verb ‘yu’addibhum’, ‘he (Allah) will punish them’, found on ‘Fol. 16r, Z.13’, is not explained with ‘adaban aliman’, ‘with a painful punishment’, as in the Standard Text (StT). There one finds ‘fi‘l-dunya wa-‘l-ahirati’, ‘in this world and in the Hereafter.’ The Sana'a manuscript contains only ‘in this world’ and therefore fits better with the end of the verse in both versions: ‘And there will not be for them on earth any protector or helper.’

9:74 ىتولوا yatawallaw/turned they of -- no such word exists in Arabic without trailing alif

9:50 وىتولوا wayatawallaw/and turned they of

9:74 … وان and if ىتولوا yatawallaw/turned they of ىعذبهم punished them الله the god عذبا adhaban/ punishment of الىما aliman/dire of فى in الدنىا the world والاخره and the afterlife its وما and not لهم for them فى in الارض the land من any ولى guardian ولا and not نصىر helper/intercessor


Quote
Instead of the word ‘gahannnamu,’ ‘hell’, found in the Standard Text (9:73), the old manuscript version contains the synonym ‘l-naru’, ‘the fire’, found in the box with the interrupted frame. It is almost identical with a parallel text found in today’s Surah 24:57:

24:57 لا not تحسبن calculate they الذىن the ones كفروا reject they of معجزىن escape فى in الارض the land وماوهم and abode theirs النار l-naru/the fire ولبىس and surely wretched المصىر the destiny

9:73 ىاىها O you النبى the prophet جهد endeavor (against) الكفار the disbelievers والمنفقىن and the hypocrites واغلظ and be harsh علىهم upon them وماوهم and abode theirs جهنم jahannamu/abyss وبىس and wretched المصىر the destiny

66:9 ىاىها O you النبى the prophet جهد endeavor (against) الكفار the disbelievers والمنفقىن and the hypocrites واغلظ and be harsh علىهم upon them وماوهم and abode theirs جهنم jahannamu/abyss وبىس and wretched المصىر the destiny


the above verse is repeated verbatim and best to confirm with other old manuscripts e.g.

Berlin, State Library: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
210 fol., Approx. 85% of the total text, 662-765 CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/9/vers/74/handschrift/1245


Paris, Bibliothèque nationale de France: Arabe 328 (a)
late 7th / early 8th century - parchment
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/9/vers/74?handschrift=13


Quote
Whereas the secondary text of the examined palimpsest comes close to the content of today’s Quran, it is still not 100% identical. None of the numerous changes under discussion are mentioned in the Qirâ'ât literature that is concerned mostly with methods of pronunciation used in the recitations of the Qur'an. The changes are also different from those found in the collections of the Quran by Ibn Mas’ud, known primarily for the absence of Surah 1, 113 and 114, and Ubay bin Ka’b who listed two additional Surahs.7

These papers are interesting to peruse for further study.

Colored Dots and the Question of Regional Origins in Early Qur'ans:
https://www.academia.edu/12135976/Coloured_Dots_and_the_Question_of_Regional_Origins_in_Early_Qurans_Part_I

Two ‘Lost’ Sūras of the Qurʾān: Sūrat al-Khalʿ and Sūrat al-Ḥafd between Textual and Ritual Canon (1st -3rd/7th -9th Centuries)

https://www.academia.edu/40869286/Two_Lost_S%C5%ABras_of_the_Qur%CA%BE%C4%81n_S%C5%ABrat_al-Khal%CA%BF_and_S%C5%ABrat_al-%E1%B8%A4afd_between_Textual_and_Ritual_Canon_1st_-3rd_7th_-9th_Centuries_Pre-Print_Version_



Hizbullah

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 682
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Unchanged Qur'an
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2020, 11:58:57 PM »
Salaam,
I chanced upon this article.

https://www.answering-islam.org/authors/oskar/palimpsest.html

Although it clearly suggests one of those missionary efforts, I am keen to know if anyone has any further knowledge on the topic.

Peace

San'a Codex was written in the Hijazi script which was invented and in the mid 4th or early 5th Century CE! the Kufic script was invented in the early 7th Century CE! Watch the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NVgZh_6HKs&t=8s

Peace
Q:02:32 - They said, "Exalted are YOU; we have no knowledge except what YOU have taught us. Indeed, it is YOU who is the Knowing, the Wise."

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Unchanged Qur'an
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2020, 11:53:27 PM »
missionary accusations of plagiarism https://youtu.be/3NVgZh_6HKs?t=249

52:33-34 ام or ىقولون speaketh being تقوله it speech (fabrication) his بل rather لا not ىومنون believing فلىاتوا so let approached they of بحدىث bihadithin/with narration مثله mithlihi/similitude it ان if كانوا be they of صدقىن sincere

https://www.islamic-awareness.org/quran/text/mss/radio.html

"Perhaps the most studied manuscript using carbon dating is Codex Ṣanʿāʾ I. As shown in Table I, it has been radiocarbon-dated in five different labs in five different countries. This also serves as a platform to independently verify the agreement on dating performed in various laboratories. Agreement between independent radiocarbon tests conducted at different laboratories is a very useful method for weeding out aberrations due to mishandling of samples. From the above Table, it is seen that the radiocarbon dating results from the labs in Arizona, Zürich, and Oxford show very close agreement. Interestingly, the dating at Zürich of two different folios gave very similar results. On the other hand, the dating carried out at the Centre de Datation par le Radiocarbone de Lyon in France on Codex Ṣanʿāʾ I shows three different dates - none of them agreeing with one another, with only one of them agreeing with the test results carried out in the labs of Arizona, Zürich, and Oxford. One may conclude that the radiocarbon tests completed at Lyon are suspect due to their irreproducibility. This conclusion is further strengthened by observing the test results at Zürich (566–657 CE), Oxford (595–658 CE) and Kiel (430–611 CE) were from a unified sample (i.e., resultant single gaseous substance)[82] that generated the impossibly early result at Lyon (388–535 CE). Similar conclusions can be drawn about the testing done at the Christian-Albrechts-Universität at Kiel (Germany) which do not agree with those done at the labs in Arizona, Zürich, and Oxford, however, the former shows significant overlap of the calibrated dates with those obtained from the latter labs. From the above observations, it can be concluded that the dating of Codex Ṣanʿāʾ I shows excellent agreement and that radiocarbon dating is a reliable technique. It must come with a caveat that this is true only when performed in laboratories such as those in Oxford, Arizona, and Zürich that have experience and demonstrated competence with the handling of parchment."


examples of scribal errors; using context and cross-reference, and evolving script.

Paris, Bibliothèque nationale de France: Arabe 328 (c)
Arabic 1572 (a) fragment from Birmingham, same manuscript: 568-645 CE (95.4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/22/vers/4?handschrift=158

1) misspelled word (one-off error), see 6th line from top, 2nd و wa is missing
21:109 توعدون tuaduna/thou promise being

2) missing word من who (one-off error) – without “who” confusing lacks reference

22:4 كتب decreed علىه upon him انه that he من who تولاه befriends him فانه so indeed he
 ىضله misguided him وىهدىه and guided him الى to عذب punishment السعىر the blaze

22:4 كتب decreed علىه upon him انه that he تولاه befriends him (?) فانه so indeed he (?)
 ىضله misguided him (?) وىهدىه and guided him (?) الى to عذب punishment السعىر the blaze

3) evolving script/standard, see 13th line with alif سكرىا sukara in older manuscripts
22:2 سكرى sukara/intoxicated



Gotthelf Bergsträßer Archive: "Saray Medina 1a" (= Istanbul, Topkapı Sarayı Müzesi: M 1)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/22/vers/4?handschrift=56



Tübingen, Universitätsbibliothek: Ma VI 165 649-675, σ2 (95,4%)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/22/vers/4?handschrift=107