Author Topic: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...  (Read 5862 times)

Jafar

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2020, 12:09:06 AM »
The word OUR comes with acceptance of something (be it positive or negative)

Our book coz that's what I take for my salvation... While those who don't take it cannot claim so while they have their significant book in which they rely on..

So other books cannot be claimed as among 'our books'?
This "Our Book" demanded an exclusivity?

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That's why our prophet was ordered tell... " Say O! Disbelievers...  I won't serve what you serve... And further ... To You Your Deen (system) and to Me My Deen.. "

Now there's something new.. Our Prophet.
Does this "our prophet" demanded an exclusivity as well?
Similar to the above?

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What is our System? Our book Quran... Anyone call our book if he accepts it...

Our system.. a new term here as well..
It demanded an exclusivity as well?
Is it superior compared to other systems?

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So dear..don't pinpoint things which you can't prove within Quran....  I only claim quran to negate what you say agaisnt Quran..

And you don't think that it's everyone rights to pinpointing which can be proven by anything?

Or do you think you have the rights or power to decide what others can say or think?
And also on what ground it should be based on?

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That's all... Other than that you may be a wonderful person which I have no idea... God knows.. I bring to table which I feel wrong according explanation of Quran of my knowledge... If claimed so.. Then be professional debate and substantiate your claim within Quran.. ..

Professional debate...  :rotfl:
What is that??
I never claimed as such.. did you?

So those who do not substantiate their claim with Quran are not professional debater?

Yes it is perfectly ok to 'bring to the table' things which you feel wrong according to you and your knowledge.

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Anything away from Quran don't expect me to reply..

Actually I was not expecting any reply from you...
Thus I'm perfectly ok if you don't reply as well...

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Be happy with your Deen...  No objection..
The same to you..  :)

As mentioned before, everyone will get what suits them.
God is the provider of ALL.

jkhan

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2020, 12:21:50 AM »
Professional debate is if one claimed something is wrong then prove within Quran  what he claimed... Since subject is within Quran...

I will always put my view dude whenever one is speaking against what is the actual  fact of Quran.. So you can't keep me away...  Be happy till then....

Jafar

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2020, 12:31:02 AM »
I will always put my view dude whenever one is speaking against what is the actual  fact of Quran.. So you can't keep me away...  Be happy till then....

I knew that you will reply, you just can't stand it did you?  :rotfl:

But it seems you didn't answered my 3 other questions regarding "Our book", "our prophet" and "our system". Nonetheless it is ok if you don't want to address those.

Where and when did I try to 'keep you away' ?
I think you've been a great help of showing the contrast.
I thank you for that, many others here benefited from your presence.

Even there were times when 'flat-earthers' somehow being banned from this forum.
I put my plea to the administrators to release the ban.


ade_cool

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2020, 09:38:27 PM »
Wassalam ade_cool,

Right now I am unsure if God knows the future or knows what we do as we do it (kind of like surveillance in the present). But I do know He decides to guide or misguide with our consent (since we choose the decisions) as I know this from the Qur'an.

Do you think God sees everything- past, present and future? As humans we see things in a linear fashion i.e. one event leads to another because we are constrained by time.

Salam Sarah,

Let me try to explain my current understanding based on Quran for this topic.

General Principles

In general, we will be presented choices from time to time and having shown us the truth God let us choose which one we will take. After we choose at one time, we will then be presented again with next choices depending on choices that we have taken previously.

If everything has been written and we are just following the script, then below verses make no sense at all

[18:29] And say: “The truth is from your Lord, so let whoever desires believe, and whoever desires reject.” We have prepared for the wicked a Fire  whose walls will be surrounding them. And if they cry out, they are  given a water like boiling oil which burns their faces. What a dreadful  drink and what a miserable place!

What is the point of saying we can choose to believe or reject if we are just following script already written?

[29:2] Did the people think that they will be left to say: “We believe” without being put to the test?

Can we call it a test if we are simply following the script written?

[13:11] Present with him and behind him are retainers, they preserve him from the command of God. God does not change the condition  of a people until they change what is with themselves. And if  God wanted to harm a people, then there is no turning Him back,  nor will they have any protector against Him.

What is the point of telling us that He will change our condition provided that we first change ourselves, if we are just following written script?

There are many other verses which are consistent with the general principles mentioned above that we have choices.

The picture attached depicts in very simplified manner how we are presented with choices and how what we have chosen in the past influence the next choices presented to us.



Some explanations regarding the picture:
- Choices presented next depend on choice already taken
- Red color depicts bad choice, Green color depicts good choice
- The more to the left, the worse it is while the more to the right, the better it is

Now let's read some verses and let's try to relate them

[19:76] And God increases the guidance of those who are guided. And the goodness that endures is better with your Lord as a reward and a  far better return.

[29:69] As for those who strive in Our cause, We will guide them to Our paths. For God is with the pious.


Those who follow guidance, God will increase the guidance. Those who strive in the cause of God, they will be led to God's path. This is depicted in the picture in that the more one choose green or strive to go in green direction, the less red choices are presented to them.

[9:126] Do they not see they are tested every calendar year once or twice? But then they do not repent, nor do they remember.

This is depicted in the picture in that just because one is currently in red zone, does not mean they cannot repent.

[7:175] And recite to them the news of the person whom Our revelations were given to him, but he removed himself from them, and thus  the devil followed him, and he became of those who went astray.

And the other way around, just because one has been given ayats, he can still go astray if he removes himself from the ayats.

[99:7] So whoever does the weight of an atom of good will see it.
[99:8] And whoever does the weight of an atom of evil will see it.

[4:40] Indeed, God does not wrong the weight of an atom; and if it is good He will double it. And He grants from Himself a great  recompense.


[4:124] And whoever does good works, whether male or female, and is a believer, then these will be admitted to Paradise, and they will not be wronged even to the extent of naqira [naqira = sub atomic particles inside an atom?].

[4:49] Did you not note those who ascribe purity to themselves? No, it is God who purifies whom He wills, and they will not be wronged even to the extent of fatila [fatila = thread = tiny string whose vibrations make up sub atomic particles?].

Overall, the more we make good choices the more it adds to our weight while the more we make bad choice the more it reduces our weight. And nobody will be wronged even the slightest.

[2:6] BEHOLD, as for those who are bent on denying the truth - it is all one to them whether thou warnest them or dost not warn them: they will not believe.
[2:7] God has sealed their hearts and their ears, and over their eyes are covers. They will incur a great retribution.

[3:178] And let not those who reject think that We are providing for them out of the goodness of themselves. We are only providing for them  so that they may increase in sin, and they will have a humiliating  retribution.

[40:37] “The secrets of the heavens, so that I may take a look at the god of Moses; though I think he is a liar.” Thus the evil works of  Pharaoh were adorned for him, and he was blocked from the  path. And the planning of Pharaoh brought nothing but regret.


Another important lesson from Quran is that just because one is not dead yet, does not mean the path to salvation is still available. If one keeps choosing bad choices one after another, at one point God might decide to block him from the path by putting seals in his heart, ears and eyes. And in such situation, His provision is merely so that they increase in sin. Going back to the picture, this situation is depicted in choice #11 and choice #12, i.e. next choices presented at that points all inevitably lead to hell.

[23:100] “So that I may do good in that which I have left behind.” No, it is but a word he is speaking. And there is a barrier to prevent them  from going back until the Day they are all resurrected.

And there is no going back in time to make different choices. For every decision one makes, one has to deal with its consequences.


God is All Knowing as He knows every single choice we have taken in the past and He knows what choices being presented to us (meaning He knows every possibilities of our future). See the picture again and now imagine a being that is two dimensional being. Let's say the being is at choice #8. The being can only see choices being presented to it which are choice #14, #15, and #16. On the other hand, higher dimension being (in this case 3 or above) can see much more, for example what choices after choice #14, #15, and #16.

Exceptions

There are exceptions in that some chosen people are presented choices that lead to paradise. An example for this exception would be Jesus.

[19:29] So she pointed to him. They said: “How can we talk to someone who is a child in a cradle?”
[19:30] He said: “I am a servant of God, He has given me the Book and made me a prophet.”
[19:31] “And He made me blessed wherever I am, and He has charged me with the Connection and purification as long as I am alive.”
[19:32] “And to be dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a mischievous tyrant.”
[19:33] “And peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the Day I am resurrected alive.”


It should be noted that the exceptions are always for positive case, i.e. the outcome is good.


Matter Already Decided

Some matters have already been decided by God. For such matters, it will happen as per His decision according to His will. An example of this can be seen from the following verses:

[10:99] And had your Lord willed, all the people on the earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make  them believe?

[6:116] And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture,  and that is because they only guess.


God has decided that not all people will believe and majority are leading away from the path of God. This is a matter already decided so no matter what it will happen as per God will. However God has not decided on who will be left astray and who will be guided. His decision will be based on what we choose when we are presented choices from time to time.

[17:4] And We decreed to the Children of Israel in the Book, that you will make corruption twice on the earth, and that you will become  very high and mighty.

God has decreed that Bani Israil will make corruption on earth twice. This is a matter already decided so no matter what it will happen as per God will.

[17:7] If you do good, then it will be good for you, and if you do bad, then so be it. But when the promise of the second time comes,  they will make your faces filled with sorrow and they will enter  the Masjid as they did the first time, and they will strike down all  that was raised up.

However God has not decided who among the Bani Israil people will be part of corruption and who will be doing good. His decision will be based on what Bani Israil people choose when presented choices from time to time.



Wassalam,
Ade

Sarah

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2020, 01:00:28 PM »
Please provide ayats that say "'God doesn't know what we will do next."

Like this? or this 

nah, no way


Putting Allah in time and physical boundaries creates a misunderstanding.


                                                        :peace:


                                                     

I never said I agreed with, 'God doesn't know what we will do next'. I quoted it. Doesn't mean I agree with it. In fact, I questioned it in my own sentence afterwards,' But doesn't God know the FUTURE? Or does He only know what we are doing in the PRESENT?.

I don't know if you're misquoting me on purpose or if you did not understand the question.

As for God existing out of time and space, I don't think the Qur'an explicitly mentions this. However, I do not necessarily think that God exists within time and space.

@Hawk, you also misquoted me here:
Quote from: Sarah on March 22, 2020, 07:59:18 PM

So God is not an infinite being outside of time and space but actually a physical being.


That was never my own view. I quoted someone else. I literally put it in quotes as is evident from the way I wrote my question. I do not understand why you're misquoting me on purpose? It's hurtful and manipulative.
'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

good logic

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2020, 09:46:26 AM »
Peace Sarah.
We are all brothers and sisters here trying to learn from each other.
From my experience here, I know that the majority of the brothers and sisters  are sincerily trying their best to help by answering,clarifying and  cheking the questions with you.

Please allow me to expand a little bit on "GOD knows everything"- Omniscient-, quote:

 When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things. He does not have to learn anything and He has not forgotten anything. God does not have to reason things out, find out things, or learn them gradually. He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. God also knows every potential thing that might happen. God also knows those things that humankind has yet to discover. This knowledge is absolute and unacquired. The omniscience of God means that He has perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, and perfect wisdom as to how to apply the knowledge.

 That is completely independent and aside from any creation, That is a fact.
Now GOD ,through this perfect knowledge has decided to create us, part of the reason for creating us is to let us choose (Amana).

Just because one can say the following:
O LORD, you have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from far away. You search out my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, O LORD, you know it completely. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is so high that I cannot attain it (Psalm 139:1-6).
Does not mean one cannot choose and make decisions of the path we wish to follow.

For the dedicated believer it makes no difference, In fact the added bonus is that GOD  tries/searches our hearts deeper and we cannot hide anything from GOD:

And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever (1 Chronicles 28:9).
To summarise sister:
GOD is able to righteously judge humanity for He knows the thought as well as the deed. His omniscience also allows GOD to predict the future. He knows everything that will happen before it occurs. There is great security for the believer in the omniscience of GOD.
GOD knows the need of each believer and he promises to meet those needs. All those who have put their trust in GOD are comforted by the thought of God's omniscience.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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