Author Topic: How would you answer this question  (Read 2774 times)

Sarah

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How would you answer this question
« on: April 06, 2020, 03:23:27 PM »
Peace

I was reading this website and came across this:
'The Quran says that it is “clear”, but then says elsewhere (3:7) that only Allah understands the meaning of some verses (which begs the question of why they are there).  It says that it explains "all things" (16:89), but then tells Muslims to follow the example of Muhammad (33:21) - without saying what that is.'

How would you argue these points?

😃👀✋

Iyyaka

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Re: How would you answer this question
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2020, 09:01:25 PM »
Peace

I was reading this website and came across this:
'The Quran says that it is “clear”, but then says elsewhere (3:7) that only Allah understands the meaning of some verses (which begs the question of why they are there).  It says that it explains "all things" (16:89), but then tells Muslims to follow the example of Muhammad (33:21) - without saying what that is.'

How would you argue these points?
Peace Sarah,

"which begs the question of why they are there)" => Good questioning SO..
"says elsewhere (3:7) that only Allah understands the meaning of some verses" => ...that's INCORRECT. The text doesn't say that..The verse (3:7) is so bad understanding by not taking account the textual and historical context of it. But it requires time.

good logic

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Re: How would you answer this question
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2020, 04:21:12 AM »
Peace Sarah.
We need to ask this more important question:
If only Allah understand certain verses,why would Allah send them to us?
As some kind of a Joke?!!!
 Then we can study the context of the verses that people are claiming as contradictory, difficult, not clear...etc. Using all verses of Qoran.

The following will start to enmerge:
1- clear verses and detailed explanation will be obvious on things that we recognise, need and are familiar to us in our physical surroundings. like what we need to do, how to lead our lives, the good deeds and good morals,...all things that are necessary for our salvation in this life,.
2- Things about the unseen, other dimentions, other creatures like Malaika..etc ,. that we cannot grasp fully but Qoran gives us an outline of a world to come that we need to work for to be part of (or not). How can we possibly understand things fully in details like paradise or hell or how the future is going to look like...etc. Qoran has explained this case in details and calls it "Belief in the unseen through believing GOD"
 So in reality Qoran contains all the details that we need to know in this life to pass or fail our test. If it contained all the things that we are awaiting, it will be no use to us because GOD and the Angels and the hereafter may as well be presented to us in that case and the earning part for us will not take place.No need for a test!

So rGOD is saying none understands except Allah and those who study all the verses of Qoran (both on this world and the next) with sincerity to learn more while seek more knowledge and believe all GOD s words in Qoran. i.e And the.-Al Rasikhun Fi Al Ilm -They say we believe in all of it(All Qoran) .It is from our Lord. We belive in GOD and believe GOD.

Believers are in varying stages of knowledge according to the effort, sincerity and dedication to GOD s words one puts in to try to understand. And above all is GOD s knowledge
GOD bless you.
Peace .
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Iyyaka

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Re: How would you answer this question
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2020, 12:28:54 PM »
Qoran has explained this case in details and calls it "Belief in the unseen through believing GOD"
 So in reality Qoran contains all the details that we need to know in this life to pass or fail our test. If it contained all the things that we are awaiting, it will be no use to us because GOD and the Angels and the hereafter may as well be presented to us in that case and the earning part for us will not take place.No need for a test!
.
Peace good logic,

Some wise reasonings.
Yes we received a little divine knowledge from God but it is enough (for those who believe that Al-Quran is from God and nothing has been lost from the original revelation)
Just not forget that the FIRST receivers of the message was not us..and more than 1400 years separate us from them.(big GAP in all aspects)

But, i would like to ask you about the sentence I identified in bold above - from the verse 2:3?

good logic

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Re: How would you answer this question
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2020, 03:02:24 AM »
Peace : Iyyaka.

By believing in the unseen, we can only believe what GOD says about it in Qoran. We cannot make our own assumptions. Like for example the description of paradise, GOD gave us an allegorical description and comparisons we can apply to  our senses here in this life (the happy/good/calm... feeling)  to have a feel of what it could be like. But we cannot know its looks and wherabout.
We take GOD s  that it exist and is a wonderful abode.
It will be pointless and unnecessary to argue about the details of it, like we humans like to do in all sorts of other subjects we cannot possibly know or need to know now.
Thanks for your query.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Iyyaka

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Re: How would you answer this question
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2020, 03:57:21 AM »
Peace : Iyyaka.

By believing in the unseen, we can only believe what GOD says about it in Qoran. We cannot make our own assumptions. Like for example the description of paradise, GOD gave us an allegorical description and comparisons we can apply to  our senses here in this life (the happy/good/calm... feeling)  to have a feel of what it could be like. But we cannot know its looks and wherabout.
We take GOD s  that it exist and is a wonderful abode.
It will be pointless and unnecessary to argue about the details of it, like we humans like to do in all sorts of other subjects we cannot possibly know or need to know now.
Thanks for your query.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Peace and God bless u too.
Right. Thanks

Wakas

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Re: How would you answer this question
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2020, 04:50:31 AM »
tells Muslims to follow the example of Muhammad (33:21)

33:21 says "rasul/messenger" not Muhammad

Big difference. (click)
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Fadiva

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Re: How would you answer this question
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2020, 05:31:01 AM »
3.7
Arberry: It is He who sent down upon thee the Book, wherein are verses clear that are the Essence of the Book, and others ambiguous. As for those in whose hearts is swerving, they follow the ambiguous part, desiring dissension, and desiring its interpretation; and none knows its interpretation, save only God. And those firmly rooted in knowledge say, 'We believe in it; all is from our Lord'; yet none remembers, but men possessed of minds.

Shakir: He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

Pickthall: He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.

It seems that only Allah knows the meaning of the allegorical verses. Then there is a point or a comma. Those who are firmly in knowlege say they believe in it ( it isn't said that they know the meaning of them).

So I wonder why all the verses are translated (exept three letters but proposed ALM or Alif, Lam, Mim) if some are only known by Allah.  If I'm not wrong(I asked myself this question about some years ago).Is it not a risk to mislead/deceive people who are reading translations ?
I remember another translation into French with no point or comma and some people (like Nidal Guessoum if I remember well) assuming that only Allah and those who are firmly in knowledge know the meaning of them but there is another verb after, which is "say." Those who are firmly in knoledge say(they believe in them,its all from Allah).

I didn't read ( and I don't); "except Allah and those who are firmly in knowledge which say:...."

Edit: I get from an arabe to french dictionnary: مُّحْكَمَاتٌ translated as court, referee or arbitrator. When somebody say "hakam" I understand command ( or give order) ...
and for تَشَابَهَ I get :alike, similarity, something that looks like the same. In French translations( made by translators of al quran) we have " à equivoque" ( equivocal, ambiguous).
so differents meanings for those words... I wonder how they choose them.

Bikrun

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Re: How would you answer this question
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2020, 10:12:00 AM »
Peace

I was reading this website and came across this:
'The Quran says that it is “clear”, but then says elsewhere (3:7) that only Allah understands the meaning of some verses (which begs the question of why they are there).  '

How would you argue these points?

Salam,


3:7 is talking about the Kitab and not about the Quran. They are not the same (10:37)
42:43    And for he who is patient and forgives, then that is an indication of strength

Fadiva

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Re: How would you answer this question
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2020, 03:38:43 AM »
Peace,

10.37
You should say more...
Maybe your understand arabic, but it isn't the case for all. And in some translations there is no mentions of the book (but :if we chek in arabic there is a mention 'lkitabi).
And in others, we find " the [former] scripture, the existing book ( the Bible) and we can also find the Book.

If you can explain what you understand. Sarah asked questions maybe she needs details.

Thanks.