Author Topic: If God created everything and decides to guide or misguide...  (Read 636 times)

Sarah

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Peace

If God created everything and decides to guide and misguide, knows everyone's destiny as everything that is going to happen and that's happened and that is happening is already written, why does God get angry at rejectors when they reject God and disobey him if God can just say be and it is and those rejectors would instantly be submitters?

This is puzzling?

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good logic

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Re: If God created everything and decides to guide or misguide...
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2020, 08:46:04 AM »
Peace Sarah.
 GOD does not force submission on the creation!

GOD creates because GOD can do anything and knows everything.

GOD does not creates other "gods"(which by definition is not possible because there can only be one GOD).i.e perfect beings.

Therefore the created must choose their path freely that is the only fair and right way to be.

Since "created" means to grow and learn to shape their destiny, knowledge must be acquired through living the choice. i.e The created choose what to become.

GOD knowing the choices and decisions as far as the created are concerned is independent of their choices and decisions and irrelevant and does not hinder  the created from their choices.

 GOD can help the convictions(once the  choice/decision has been  made by the created) one way or the other..

Therefore it is up to the created to choose the path they want to follow.

Overall GOD has got the "video tape" of everything that happens but the created have chosen the role they play in it. GOD is just and fair to all the creations.
 GOD is not unjust to the created.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

reel

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Re: If God created everything and decides to guide or misguide...
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2020, 09:17:31 AM »
Look to quantum physics for answers. Theistic idea of predestination seems to be wrong.

God exist in the universe and beyond as energy! He is not sitting somewhere in the sky like the sunni religion told us before.


Everything is happening within him. He takes responsibility for it when he says he guides and misguides. They are what predestinations are. For the technical side, we have to look into superposition and entanglement.

All possibilities already exist. Freewill helps us choose the one we like to experience.

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why does God get angry at rejectors when they reject God and disobey him if God can just say be and it is and those rejectors would instantly be submitters?


I am gonna talk about the rejectors found in Quran. God has no need. We can gain nothing by simply telling him that we believe in him. Obeying him means we are being peacemakers. It benefits all. Rejectors described in Quran are the opposite. Hence, they attract God's anger.

"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

jkhan

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Re: If God created everything and decides to guide or misguide...
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2020, 10:08:50 PM »
Peace

If God created everything and decides to guide and misguide, knows everyone's destiny as everything that is going to happen and that's happened and that is happening is already written, why does God get angry at rejectors when they reject God and disobey him if God can just say be and it is and those rejectors would instantly be submitters?

This is puzzling?

Peace... 
Confusion at  best.. Just a little advice.. Don't use this forum for your verification and final decision... I do not say you are.. But number of questions you raise seems that you have not repeated quran in reading and grasping it...i won't say don't raise.. If this many doubts raised it shows that quran didn't give you an answer to all till date so reached this forum... That's very dangerous  if you are true believer.. First reach quran.. Master it and look for guidance and then approach this forum... I may sound weird... But once you know the book it is much easier to attend in this forum.. Don't get upset by what I say but give priority to book.. Just coz one thing is not clear don't raise question in forum.. But raise to yourself and figure out.. Hope you get me..

Okay.. Your concern... Yes God knows future.. But still act as He doesn't know as per your indirect claim..

Just take the example when God said to Malaika at the very beginning . *** I know what you don't know *** what malaika in fact said You gonna create those who shed blood.....  So dear.. Didn't God know what He created?  Why He needs to make everyone submitters?  Why?  Allah never controlled our free will as you may aware...
Didn't God say that I will fill hell those who follow iblees and his gang?

Allah has a word which wentforth.. He never change.. Unless that non on this Earth would be spared to what we do here... He is merciful  though...
When God says He guides whom He wills mean He knows the soul... Coz we were soul before entering to this body... Malaika knew souls were living without body while Malika were with body.. And they knew about these souls characters as well..  That's why they said sheding blood.. Not a guesswork.. That's the reality of us even before creation of body and needless to say after created..
So you want everyone to become submitters.. That's far from truth..

10:99 " And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, would you compel the people in order that they become believers?

Anger of God..  You have a concern why God angry? 
Suppose you have a big company.. Very clear the instructions to employees.. Anyone breach the result is manifestly written in contract.. Now.. You want to love those who make your company a havoc.. But coz of this do you want to shut down the company? No.. You may fire them and the existence of your company forge ahead and reward good employees. But when you recruited everyone in your company you treated same.. Even sometimes knowingly some people character you would have given them the job hoping they reform...
God is just.. Non is just as God...
God's anger result in punishment which He promised with Hell fire.. Coz we are none to change the Creators Sunnah (Way of dealing)..  We are just slaves created... 

Ask yourself... "when you are just, don't you get angry when you see an unjust thing happening just coz of the freedom others have"  if you feel so,  why wouldn't the most just than anyone shouldn't feel angry... He won't punish anyone unjustly..

ade_cool

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Re: If God created everything and decides to guide or misguide...
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2020, 11:22:11 AM »
True that it is God who guides and it is God who also leaves astray. But this is not random to the extent that God even "took measures to anticipate" people are making excuses for being left astray.

[7:172] And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves: “Am  I not your Lord?” They said: “Yes, we bear witness.” Thus you  cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of  this.
[7:173] Nor can you say: “It was our fathers who set up partners before and we were simply a progeny who came after them. Would You  destroy us for what the innovators did?”

God will determine whether one deserves to be guided or deserves to be left astray. And He is Wise and Just.


Cerberus

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Re: If God created everything and decides to guide or misguide...
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2020, 03:58:58 AM »
Peace

If God created everything and decides to guide and misguide, knows everyone's destiny as everything that is going to happen and that's happened and that is happening is already written, why does God get angry at rejectors when they reject God and disobey him if God can just say be and it is and those rejectors would instantly be submitters?

This is puzzling?

I think it's just a way of portraying God as simply as possible so that the population of a 1400 years ago could understand. The arabs used to worship stone god and burry their kids and kill each other over petty things.

So telling people that God gets angry or that they're gonna get God's anger if they do this or that is a way to make them understand what to do from what not to do.

Other than that it makes no sense if you think about it just enough. For God to get angry means God is emotional ? Fine.
God gets angry when you do this means God has expected you not to do that but at the same time God prepared hell for people who do that. Then why getting angry ? People get angry compulsively. Nobody asks to be angry, it's just an instinctive reaction to outside events...How does that relate to God ?

Reality is if you look around you, and fortunately for us, we learn more and more about how things in nature work and that tells us the depth of knowledge and intelligence and design from micro organisms to the entire cosmos that God possesses. God is THE creator, THE creative, THE knowledgeable, THE engineer, THE programmer, THE physicist, THE designer, THE wise...
And all of us possess very little of all these things.

So that's how I personally view it, the whole God getting angry over certain things is all about portraying God in a simplistic manner so that the people who Quran was targetting could understand. I think if you put things in their perspective they start to make more sense.

Jafar

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Re: If God created everything and decides to guide or misguide...
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2020, 11:04:01 AM »
If God created everything and decides to guide and misguide, knows everyone's destiny as everything that is going to happen and that's happened and that is happening is already written.

The above statement is true and not an "if".
Time and space is merely a creation, it's not a hindrance for the one ultimate creator.

Quote
why does God get angry at rejectors when they reject God and disobey him if God can just say be and it is and those rejectors would instantly be submitters?

This is puzzling?

That's why the notion of "rejecting God" or "disobeying God" or "angry God" is absurd within monotheism context.

If God desires all pride, hate, envy, anger, sadness (the root cause of evil) to disappear it will instantly disappear.

But it exist!
At least on this (virtual) world.
Thus it all must actually serve a purpose within the grand design of things.

Imagine the 'disappointment' of the so-called 'rejectors of the fact that God controls everything' when they found out that they're actually not rejecting anything but what they think, say and do in every detail is actually playing out a role play which has been designed by the one ultimate grand designer?

I'm now starting to dig into "Law Of One" material, initially brought up by other member of this forum.
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601288.msg428083#new

Some of the explanations there actually makes more sense.
Oddly it also aligned with material written by 18th century swedish dude named Swedenborg who also questioned the same thing.

But your questioning on this matter is a good sign, it will eventually lead you to answer which you shall find out yourselves.

Ask and it shall be received, seek and you shall find...


nimnimak_11

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Re: If God created everything and decides to guide or misguide...
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2020, 03:30:36 PM »
Peace

If God created everything and decides to guide and misguide, knows everyone's destiny as everything that is going to happen and that's happened and that is happening is already written, why does God get angry at rejectors when they reject God and disobey him if God can just say be and it is and those rejectors would instantly be submitters?

This is puzzling?

Freewill is important. God presents us with x and y. x is good whilst y is bad. Some willingly choose x and some willingly choose y. If God chose for us, it wouldn't be free-will. We choose. If we choose y, we choose to be misguided. God misguides us. If we choose x, we choose to be guided, God guides us. God knows who will choose what in advance. But it's still important that free-will be exercised. If good does not get rewarded and evil does not get punished, you do not have a god that is all-praiseworthy.

Existence/God is perfect. It's better for evil to suffer then for evil to be at peace. So for example, it's better and more glorious for Pharaoh to suffer then for him to be at peace or happy.