Peace Wakas
It's good to hear from you and engage you in conversation again.
QuoteAnyone who looks at the classical Arabic meanings can easily see this is obviously not the case. At most one can say it can theoretically mean what you said.
You are right. What I was trying to convey was that
if we take duluk to mean "decline", then we should take it to refer to when the sun begins to decline (which begins at noon). If we take it to mean sunset, then we have ignored all the previous points of the decline of the sun (which feels incomplete or inconsistent to me).
QuoteJust like bias is involved in any other chosen meaning (since it's only used once).
Ok, but good logic's
bias was of one layer, whereas I felt yours was two-fold. By this I mean a meaning had to be chosen and discussed regarding the word "duluk". Both you and good logic seemed to agree to focus on "decline". Good logic did not project anything extra. I think it was an excessive stretch to assert that the decline of the sun mentioned in 17:78 is only in reference to sunset. This is where you asked for each other for proof of who was right, whereas I think the burden of proof was exclusively on you (because good logic was being consistent with the meaning "decline" without over-stretching. You were over-stretching and thus needed to prove that this over-stretching was justified). Again, you had both agreed on the "decline" aspect of duluk.
QuoteI'm the one who pointed this out so you're in agreement with me. I came up with a simple way to minimise bias, i.e. slot in whatever understanding/options there are and see what happens with each one. Unfortunately simplicity is not often appreciated.
I agree that we should slot in whatever understanding/option there are and then choose whichever's most sincere to God/Good/Truth.
Simplicity is good, and I think we have to recognise that one possible reason the Quran is not clear to us at times, is because our sincerity to God is not clear/pure/unbiased/consistent for us to be worthy of such clarity. To me, we're all in a race to see who is least evil/unfair in relation to God/Truth/Goodness.
In our attempts to obtain truth/understanding from God, if we overstep, we may deprive ourselves of the correct understanding, and then end up upholding an incorrect understanding (incorrect in that we
feel/think it insincere to God but uphold it anyway) which could either deprive of us of greater goods, or worse, bring us hardship.
The right effect (genuine awe of existing in Existence/God) has to fall into place. It requires that we truly depend on the Godliness/Perfection/Goodness of God. We must appreciate Mercy and treat the Merciful as Merciful. Some seek to take advantage of this (Satan) and seem to try to force God's Hand (the jews in relation to Christ). Some can conceive of mercy greater than the one they attribute to God, yet they treat God as not possessing that kind of mercy. I really think that we are in a race to see who is least evil in relation to the wholly innocent of evil, and wholly good/generous/merciful.
I hope I have not written in excess Wakas. But I like sharing things about God that I think are good to share.