Author Topic: New article: salat timings as per The Quran  (Read 11375 times)

Wakas

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New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« on: March 28, 2020, 03:57:07 AM »
peace all,

The regular/timed salat from The Quran: how many and when?
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html

The Challenge
If you find an error/flaw in the above you will be eligible for $100 USD per error/flaw or you may opt for it to be donated to a charity of your choosing. Proof of donation will be provided in that case. Please post any claimed flaws in this thread, thanks. Valid errors/flaws will be determined by the author.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

good logic

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2020, 04:58:48 AM »
Peace Wakas.
I do not agree with "DULUK Al Shams" in verse 17:78 being translated as "sunset". here quote:

17:78 uphold the salat (at/for) the setting of the sun / sunset to the darkness of the night and reading (of) the dawn...

Sunset in Arabic is "Maghrib Al Shams"

Please provide your evidence for this?
 Here is another translation that disagrees with yours :
17:78
You shall observe the Salat when the sun declines from its highest point ( noon), as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.
This is not sunset itself?
GOD bless you.
Peace.:
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Wakas

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2020, 05:40:41 AM »
peace GL,

Quote
I do not agree with "DULUK Al Shams" in verse 17:78 being translated as "sunset"

See Lane's Lexicon for the evidence.

Sunset in Arabic is "Maghrib Al Shams"

"maghrib al shams" means "the setting place/time of the sun", see here for explanation.

Quote
Here is another translation that disagrees with yours :

What a certain translation says is irrelevant. What matters is the evidence. I have already covered this in the article which you seemingly have read and thus have responded to in this thread.
In any case, is it your view that you perform one salat from noon to sunset (e.g. approx 6 hours in the UK where you reside)?

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

good logic

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2020, 05:49:20 AM »
 Peace Wakas.

the lexicon in the link you gave also has"declined" as meaning . The sun starts to decline from its highest point at noon. Why do you only take sunset ?
 Actually the sun declining could give at least one timing while the sun is still above the horizon as well as other timings while it carries on declining towards the night.
Therefore what you gave is not conclusive evidence that the timing is 100% correct in  your translation.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Wakas

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2020, 06:35:40 AM »
peace GL,

the lexicon in the link you gave also has"declined" as meaning . The sun starts to decline from its highest point at noon. Why do you only take sunset ?

The understanding in the article is the only one that provides perfect coherence. The challenge has been given: find a flaw/error. If all you have is word X can theoretically mean something else in a lexicon then fair enough, but that's not a flaw/error.

Let's see what happens when we go with what you are proposing...

Quote
Actually the sun declining could give at least  one timing while the sun is still above the horizon as well as other timings while it carries on declining towards the night.

So your position is:
1) the singular salat refers to multiple salat
2) Quran explicitly says: X to/ila Y which you break up into parts and claim multiple salat. Do you also do the same for ablution in 5:6 when Quran says wash from hand to/ila elbow, you break it up and only wash parts from hand to elbow? Utter nonsense.
3) provides no time-ranges for each concocted salat whatsoever

As I said the understanding in the article is the only one that I have seen which respects the Arabic. Your reply is a good example of what I'm talking about.

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

good logic

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2020, 07:06:28 AM »
Peace Wakas.
This is not my position, quote:
So your position is:
1) the singular salat refers to multiple salat
2) Quran explicitly says: X to/ila Y which you break up into parts and claim multiple salat. Do you also do the same for ablution in 5:6 when Quran says wash from hand to/ila elbow, you break it up and only wash parts from hand to elbow? Utter nonsense.
3) provides no time-ranges for each concocted salat whatsoever

My position is this:
The sun starts to decline from its highest point (Noon).   Hence the timing of this salat is Noon . The sun stays in decline to Ghasaki Al Layl  then will reverse to upwards towards Nahar..
So my position is one salat at different time from yours.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

jkhan

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2020, 07:32:05 PM »
peace all,

The regular/timed salat from The Quran: how many and when?
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html

The Challenge
If you find an error/flaw in the above you will be eligible for $100 USD or you may opt for it to be donated to a charity of your choosing. Proof of donation will be provided in that case. Please post any claimed flaws in this thread, thanks. Valid errors/flaws will be determined by the author.

Peace brother Waqas...

Only 100 Dollars... 😬..... Had you promised more than that for this massive topic,  it would have been benefited by donating it... Your choice and a strange choice... Anyway be ready to donate for poor people whereever you live... Lol

By what I said above, don't think that I would prove within Quran that you were wrong...
My concerns...

Why did you opt this particular subject to worth 100 Dollar as gift? 
But why you prefer to be the solo judge in this case...
Will you cooperate in responses giving it utmost respect by not taking your stance to be more convincing while you are the judge as well?
In court one who produce a complaint cannot be judge simmultanously... Let the quran be the judge.. Okay? So I advice keep a voting system... So let people read the debate and vote of their choice... But let only vote those who partake in the debate... But let the voting be once debate is completed... Since I am law minded I suggested... But as you wish... Soon or later I will partake in this within Quran... Just a hint.. I agree for three Salat... So wait for hard days ahead... Lol 😂

I appreciate though your effort to convince within Quran... But you seems you are convinced that it is invincible... Let it be

jkhan

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2020, 10:39:26 PM »
peace all,

The regular/timed salat from The Quran: how many and when?
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html

The Challenge
If you find an error/flaw in the above you will be eligible for $100 USD or you may opt for it to be donated to a charity of your choosing. Proof of donation will be provided in that case. Please post any claimed flaws in this thread, thanks. Valid errors/flaws will be determined by the author.

Peace...

Do you agree that chapter 62:9-11 is a Salat as well which is on a Congregation Day involving much business and notably amusement ?
 My simple question is can you specifically name which Salat it is?  You have only two salat as per your article Fajr and Isha... So without assumption can you precisely name the  Salat of 62:9-11 with reasons in order for me to go futher?


Further, 2:238 your claim wusta is not salat.. Okay.. Then would. You pls let us know which singular Salat God is emphasisng to guard in that verse?  Is it Isha OR Fajr and why? And how you judge it?

Wakas

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2020, 02:08:56 AM »
peace GL,
I have no idea what timing system you're on about now but in addition to the issues I've pointed out, you say "salat is at noon" when Quran says noon is when one puts aside their garments and is a private time (according to how most interpret 24:58). I have already mentioned this in the article you have apparently read, point 20.
Why don't you just write a short article and create YOUR OWN thread for your timings view, so we can all put it to the test? Perhaps I'm asking too much.


peace jkhan,
I have deployed this tactic of a monetary reward challenge before, e.g. here.
The reason is because this topic is one of the most discussed among those following Quran but poor quality discussion is still present. I should clarify, it is $100 per error/flaw. I have updated the article to make this clearer.
Also, it doesn't seem you have entered a competition before as it is almost always the case that the competition creator makes the rules and has the final say. If anyone doesn't like that, no problem, don't participate.

Re: 62:9
In my understanding it can refer to any timed-salat during a time of gathering, or the time of gathering (e.g. during al hajj/commemoration/homage) or perhaps even the market day (which was simply a day during the week when people/business gathered, which later came to be taken as Friday). You can read further here:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12309.msg96387#msg96387
https://web.archive.org/web/20080303232154/https://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/friday.htm
https://www.scribd.com/doc/37518569/CH-Becker-on-the-History-of-early-Muslim-Worship-and-Salat-Prayer

Re: 2:238
Already discussed in the links given in the article, e.g. here.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

jkhan

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2020, 02:57:56 AM »
peace GL,
I have no idea what timing system you're on about now but in addition to the issues I've pointed out, you say "salat is at noon" when Quran says noon is when one puts aside their garments and is a private time (according to how most interpret 24:58). I have already mentioned this in the article you have apparently read, point 20.
Why don't you just write a short article and create YOUR OWN thread for your timings view, so we can all put it to the test? Perhaps I'm asking too much.


peace jkhan,
I have deployed this tactic of a monetary reward challenge before, e.g. here.
The reason is because this topic is one of the most discussed among those following Quran but poor quality discussion is still present. I should clarify, it is $100 per error/flaw. I have updated the article to make this clearer.
Also, it doesn't seem you have entered a competition before as it is almost always the case that the competition creator makes the rules and has the final say. If anyone doesn't like that, no problem, don't participate.

Re: 62:9
In my understanding it can refer to any timed-salat during a time of gathering, or the time of gathering (e.g. during al hajj/commemoration/homage) or perhaps even the market day (which was simply a day during the week when people/business gathered, which later came to be taken as Friday). You can read further here:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12309.msg96387#msg96387
https://web.archive.org/web/20080303232154/https://www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/friday.htm
https://www.scribd.com/doc/37518569/CH-Becker-on-the-History-of-early-Muslim-Worship-and-Salat-Prayer

Re: 2:238
Already discussed in the links given in the article, e.g. here.

Peace...
That's cool offer for every error...  Every error of whose?  Lol..

No I have never participated something like this which is connected with Quran and that also on a concerned and a heated topic...

62:9-11.. I never mentioned Friday prayer (whatever the day it doesn't matter)  but on a DAY THE Gathering and not Days.. Haj is of course not a single day which repeats... The verse is much appropriate for a single day which repeats monthly or weakly etc. God didn't say Days of gatherings. You are very specific of singular and plural as well Arabic AL when it comes to Salat.. . Right? So be consistent..

2:238 ... I don't see the answer to my specific question in your link.. Would you pls answer by reading my question correctly.. If you have no time fine..