Author Topic: The lenght of the salat  (Read 2351 times)

Wakas

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2020, 02:11:13 PM »
Wakas, I did check now again. Yes, it uses the word Tabe.. Could you please share your thoughts on this verse, how you see it (because you said you use it as a guide)..

My understanding of salat

I meant that 73:20 mentions variable timings and if we cannot manage then says "so read/recite what is easy of it". The night vigil is optional anyway but to me this indicates that having a variable timing is not a big deal.

Also bear in mind:
From: http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
Quote
The reason why this minimum of two timings works in all parts of the world is that the only plural address which mentions a timed-salat is 24:58 (11:114 and 17:78 are in the singular address). In 24:58 a morning salat (salat al fajr) and evening salat (salat al isha) are mentioned. The sun is not explicitly/directly mentioned. This is important because in some parts of the world the sun may not appear above or below the horizon for part of the year. Please research countries within the Arctic circle and polar day and polar night for further information. No matter where one is in the world all societies have a morning (activity/working period) and evening time (sleep/rest period). Of course this would mean there is no set time-range for each salat in this scenario, which is not a problem in my view, and the morning and evening time-ranges in Quran can be taken as exemplars/models to follow.

If something is not explicit then I cannot say more than I have said. I personally do not see an issue with a variable time-range within the recommended time-range, sometimes doing more, sometimes less etc.

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

ilma_bee

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2020, 03:17:44 PM »
I'm just scared that if I do less than what is written or recommended as you say, that maybe it would be reducing from salat..just like in the verse where it says it's ok to reduce from it while in fear. So I'm affraid if not in fear, then it has to be full. Actually what scares me is the difficulty in performing this daily, and struggling in many situations.. I guess there is no solution for my problem..

jkhan

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2020, 07:23:30 PM »
My understanding...

****** 73:20 is not talking about Salat (Ritual prayer) at all

***** 73:20 order of revelation is well before Ritual Salat ordered.. It is one of the earliest of chapters.. Order of revelation = 03

**** but first Salat was ordered..chapter 50... No salat until 50 chapters revealed... Coz QURAN was revealed gradually... Agree or not...

**** 73:20 is reciting quran probably for memorizing... Chapter starts with "O you who wraps himself, Arise the night, except for a little...... ..." this doesn't befit for Salat if night start at the setting sun...

***** further some people totally confused about verse 17:78 .... It never orders to pray the entire period... That's beyond human capacity in a daily basis... Even you take it Meridian or Sunset....
Take example from Quran as comparison as capacity.... God allows in 2:187 to have sex with wife in Nights of Fasting....
Does it mean we have have to practice sex entire night... Coz God said night... So night is night... Not day... That's not possible.. That also every night of fasting... That is only an instruction...its our duty at what part of night and how long...

**** second thing in the same verse God says eat and drink UNTIL white thread of Fajr.. ... Does that mean we have to keep on eating UNTIL Fajr since God told in the verse.. That's so common sense... Coz to fast we need to eat and drink....  It befits according to our own way.... If you feel that late dinner would do... That's fine... If you feel having a shy at 12 or 1 am... Thats fine...but if anyone feels at the last moment having food.. That's also fine... God has given a time not to exceed that time and not to keep eating UNTIL  fajr white thread.. If anyone take them literally that's what people should do... It's not God's instruction.

Same way..17:78 AT Maridean  TO ghashak Lail doesn't mean we have to keep praying uninterrupted... Timing is given and it is with our convenience... No hardship...

The problem here some take it as office timing... Work from 9:00 am to 4:00 pm...
But they have forgotten how many such examples that is not constant...
For example if the instruction is you can visit doctor 9 am to 4 pm...  Does it mean we have to come sharp at 9 and leave at 4....that's bizarre..

For constant timing best example is fasting...
God put it in a very meticulous way...
2:187 It is indirectly says don't eat and drink once the white thread of Fajr appears... Then says COMPLETE the abstinence (ila) TO night...
That's Undeniablely a constant and uninterrupted timing period....

Btw... If God said in 17:78 establish Salat li Duluki shams and COMPLETE Ila Lail... Then it is well and truly continuous act within that time frame... Fortunately that's not what God orders...

**** even the example presented wash your foot and hands to the ankle and elbows respectively is meaningless....
Coz we can start washing hands from any point... But we have to make sure hands are washed to elbow... Or below elbow every part is washed... Isn't it.. Same for foot..

Unless START and COMPLETE words are used.. Start from certain point and complete at certain point...

God bless us

good logic

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2020, 11:42:23 PM »
Peace
You say quote:
"Good logic, I'm not a brother ;D lol
Anyway, are you saying that this ila ghasaqi leyli means towards the night? Like, pray at the noon (which goes) towards the night. I'm not sure if that word can have that meaning. So when would this prayer time end?"

First , my apology, The "brother" was in the post I pasted from an earlier answer to "the Salat" in another thread.. Sorry sister.

Now The Salat time frames are windows/parts of day/night that are clearly recognised worldwide.
Noon is a lunchtime period of approxomately few hours, like fajr, Icha, Maghrib...etc. They are windows for the salat.and clear identified parts of day/night . 9say between 12 and 2.00pm in UK for example)
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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Wakas

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2020, 02:07:16 AM »
One should always remember we are only to do what we are able as best/sincerely as we can [64:16]
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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ade_cool

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2020, 10:50:17 AM »
I'm just scared that if I do less than what is written or recommended as you say, that maybe it would be reducing from salat..just like in the verse where it says it's ok to reduce from it while in fear. So I'm affraid if not in fear, then it has to be full. Actually what scares me is the difficulty in performing this daily, and struggling in many situations.. I guess there is no solution for my problem..

Salam ilma_bee,

Muslim and Mukmin are two different groups of people.

[49:14] The Nomads said: “We believe.” Say: “You have not believed; but you should say: ‘We have submitted;’ until belief enters into  your hearts.” And if you obey God and His messenger, He will  not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Merciful.

Mukmin is performing at higher level than Muslim.

[49:15] Believers are those who believe in God and His messenger, then they became without doubt, and they strive with their money and  their lives in the cause of God. These are the truthful ones.

And accordingly the reward is doubled for those who perform at Mukmin level.

[28:53] And if it is recited to them, they say: “We believe in it. It is the truth from our Lord. Indeed, we had submitted before it.”
[28:54] To these We grant twice the reward for that they have been patient. And they counter evil with good, and from Our provisions to  them, they give.

[9:111] God has purchased from the believers their very lives and their wealth, that they will have Paradise; they fight in the cause of  God—so they kill and are killed—a promise that is true upon  Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. And whoever  fulfills this pledge with God, then have good news of the pledge  which you are concluded with. Such is the great triumph.

And one of the requirements to be performing at Mukmin level is as per 4:103.

[4:103] Once you are done with the Salat, then remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, when you are  secure, hold the Salat. Indeed, the Salat for the  believers is a book that is scheduled

Overall, just do our best and let God decide at what level we are performing. At the end of the day, if one is finally saved, then it is already great victory!

[40:7] Those who carry the Throne and all those surrounding it glorify the praise of their Lord, and believe in Him, and they  seek forgiveness for those who have believed: “Our Lord, You  encompass all things with mercy and knowledge, so forgive those  who repented and followed Your path, and spare them the agony  of Hell.”
[40:8] “Our Lord, and admit them into gardens of delight which You had promised for them and for those who did good of their fathers,  their spouses, and their progeny. You are the Noble, the Wise.”
[40:9] “And save them from the sins. And whoever You save from the sins, on that Day, You have granted him mercy. And such is the  great triumph.


Wassalam,
Ade

ilma_bee

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2020, 12:30:47 PM »
Ade, thank you. Still, my problem is there..that how will I implement salat in my everyday life, in cases when It's inconvenient for any reason. If I shorten it, maybe He will not forgive.  If I pray it later, maybe it will not be forgiven, if I try to try to pray full (2 hours) then this will be hardship every time..and just all of this is like living a hell. Because you live in a insecurity of God's punishment..

jkhan

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Re: The lenght of the salat
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2020, 07:22:26 PM »
Ade, thank you. Still, my problem is there..that how will I implement salat in my everyday life, in cases when It's inconvenient for any reason. If I shorten it, maybe He will not forgive.  If I pray it later, maybe it will not be forgiven, if I try to try to pray full (2 hours) then this will be hardship every time..and just all of this is like living a hell. Because you live in a insecurity of God's punishment..


Dear Sister...

Who told you to pray 2 hours constantly dear... No worries... Your concern and thaqwa and belief is well known to God.... He will guide you in sha Allah....

Salat has fixed timing  .. That's undeniable...... But God has never prescribed a length for Salat.. Better you benefit more you glorify God... It doesn't mean Salat 20 times a day... That's against God's timing.. Hope you get me...
Note the below verse... We can derive certain Advices to our lives in general ...

4:142 "Indeed, the hypocrites [think to] deceive Allah , but He is deceiving them. And when they stand for prayer, they stand lazily, showing [themselves to] the people and not remembering Allah except a little,"

Yes.... Above verse speaks about Munafiq...  People may give various explanation who in fact these Munafiqs(Hypocrites) are ... In my understanding, somehow they do all what believers do but pure intention of mind is so weak... The above verse itself depict some of their characteristics ... 1 ... laziness in doing ... 2 ... showing off to people ... 3 .... Remembering God a little... 4.... They deceive themselves...

Now what we have to take out of this where we stand from these strange people...
 1....Are we lazy in doing or following any of our act when it comes to belief .....
2... Are our intentions in all acts to show people so that we are well reckoned in the eyes and words of people...
3 ..... Do we remember God a little in any for form of remembrance every day... Be it salat or general zikr or sabih... Do we do a little or maximum to our capacity... That's key... Not beyond our capacity but not less to our capacity... Less than our capacity is little.. Little is a sign of hypocrisy...
4.... Do we deceive ourselves in the name of God... Every individual knows that..

When it comes to Salat all you need to do is once you done 5:6 instructions and 17:78 and 11:114(for time) , the below in standing position ....


17:110-111 Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." And do not recite [too] loudly in your prayer or [too] quietly but seek between that an [intermediate] way. And say, "Praise to Allah , who has not taken a son and has had no partner in [His] dominion and has no [need of a] protector out of weakness; and glorify/magnify Him with [great] glorification...

Keep magnifying God as much as your heart allows you with any beautiful phrases and verses..  Then submit and finish... That's all... That's Salat....

That's your daily standard as long as you are free... But you can shorten what you do daily if you are in Fear...how much you shorten is absolutely in your hand... Depends on each individual's situation.. 4:101...

Further Salat has no length assigned by God,  but only the fixed timing to do within that period with our own convenience.. . If anyone says salat has length that is only his or her whimsical or rather impulsive approach wittingly or unwittingly .unfortunately .. That doesn't befit to any human being in his or her day to day activities.... God knows human nature...  Those who claim Salat has length won't even follow what they preach.. That's for sure..

May God guide us to straight path