Author Topic: What does changing the creation of God mean  (Read 5897 times)

Mohammed.

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2020, 11:34:44 PM »
salaam good logic,

If you take the verses not for slaughtering/meat but for all food (including cereals, fruits, pulses etc.), how would you apply your understanding in 6:121 ?

6:121
“And do not eat from what God's name was not (has not been) remembered/mentioned on it, and that it truly is fisq..."
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]

good logic

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2020, 04:43:50 AM »
Salam mohamed.

My take is that we thank the Lord-Remember GOD s name- on all food provided for us We are responsible for this not others.
So if I sit down to eat any food ,I start by thanking the Lord for providing for me.

GOD bless you.
Peace..
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

jkhan

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2020, 09:26:55 PM »
6:138 “And they say, "These animals and crops are forbidden; no one may eat from them except whom we will," by their claim. And there are those [camels] whose backs are forbidden [by them] and those upon which the name of Allah is not mentioned - [all of this] an INVENTION of untruth about Him. He will punish them for what they were inventing.”

6:119 “And why should you not eat of that upon which the name of Allah has been mentioned while He has explained in detail to you what He has FORBIDDEN YOU, excepting that to which you are compelled. And indeed do many lead [others] astray through their [own] inclinations without knowledge. Indeed, your Lord - He is most knowing of the transgressors.”
6:145 Say, "I do not find within that which was revealed to me [anything] forbidden to one who would eat it unless it be a dead animal or blood spilled out or the flesh of swine - for indeed, it is impure - or it be [that slaughtered in] disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah. But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], then indeed, your Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."


Peace… Mohamed & GL..

Totally off topic… but still explain my understanding and stance..

Just ensure to separate the actions of ‘Eating’ & ‘Slaughtering’ ……

Quran never gives a clear cut order when it comes to Slaughtering an animal that it is compulsory to mention the name of God… We know exception to this while in Haj it was ordered to mention the name of God when the cattle are in line… not for each and every one of them…
…. But totally contrary to that, God explains with explicit verse and orders us to mention the name of God before consume anything to our mouth… 6:121 & 6:119
I brought the above three verses to give a thought on it, perhaps you would get a clear picture if in case complicated or stuck …

In the verse 6:145 there is no way it is mentioned that forbidden for us to eat any food (including flesh) on which the name of God is NOT MENTIONED…So Name of God mentioning on animals while slaughtering is not obligatory for sure….. For example if anyone slaughtered an animal (with or without mentioning the name of God) and selling as meat and we can buy and eat without any doubt… Unless what God forbidden 04 items…
Further by verse 6:138, it is very obvious that there is no such restriction from God that we should only eat (especially animal) if the name of God is mentioned… That’s mere invention…

So in 6:119 no one can ever say that God is referring only to animals, it refers to ALL Food which God has ALLOWED… So mention the name of God before Consume them… it is equal to thanking the God for providing the food for us….
But pls note that it is not imperative that we should mention the name of God before slaughtering any animal… No one can prove within the book that we should do so… That will be only invention…But if we mention with our habit before doing any action the name of God then there is no harm either… But No instruction from God though….

Note verse 6:119 meticulously…it says “why you should not eat upon which name of God is mentioned” and the verse continues “while God has explained in detailed what is forbidden… It means Eat all the food other than what is explained not to eat, but mention the name of God before eating on what is allowed to eat. Remember even if you happen to eat the forbidden 04 foods under compulsion, then you have to mention the name of God on it before eating them though they are listed forbidden…Coz those foods are allowed depending on your situation… So 6:119 mentioning the name of God is explained only to what is fundamentally allowed… and 6:121 is common (I mean to say any food fundamentally allowed or forbidden but allowed based on situation), but mention the name of God…

good logic

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2020, 04:25:09 AM »
Brother jkhan,are you not repeating what I said?
Eat means everything we eat.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Mohammed.

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2020, 12:51:55 AM »
وَلَا تَأْكُلُوا (And do not eat)
=>2nd person masculine plural

لَمْ يُذْكَرِ (has not been remembered/mentioned)
=>3rd person masculine singular

***
And I would like to add rest of the verse 6:121,

…and that the devils inspire/transmit to their patrons/supporters to argue/dispute with you, and if
you obeyed them, that you are (then) sharers/takers of partners (with God).
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]

jkhan

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2020, 02:42:12 AM »
وَلَا تَأْكُلُوا (And do not eat)
=>2nd person masculine plural

لَمْ يُذْكَرِ (has not been remembered/mentioned)
=>3rd person masculine singular

***
And I would like to add rest of the verse 6:121,

…and that the devils inspire/transmit to their patrons/supporters to argue/dispute with you, and if
you obeyed them, that you are (then) sharers/takers of partners (with God).

Peace GL...
I didn't see your response.. Once Mohamed's response pop up I saw...
If I am repeating what you say then Me and You are having the same stance or understanding in this case..
@mohamed..
I am not quite sure what is your understanding to date..
Are you saying below... ....

** we should slaughter animals by mentioning the name of God.. If not not mentioned we should not eat..

** we should make sure any meat bought that God's name is mentioned before slaughtering it... Otherwise we should not buy them..

** or are you saying we don't need to say the name of God before slaughtering but enough while eating... Kindly respond ...
You may be knowing the severity of the verse.. God says we can end up as mushrik.. Either with knowledge or without.. So in this case we all believers can only converge to only one understanding.. If we are with difference of opinion then either of the group is mushrik.. By this I don't say I am on the right side.. May Allah guide me...

@everyone...
I have a concern.. When I asked many people about the verse " dedicated to other than Allah"  they have the opinion that animals sacrificed by mentioning the name of any other god/s.. And eating such meat...
But I do strongly believe that it is not animals but any allowed food...other then four forbidden..
For example.. It can be any such food those who dedicate in front of their god's statues totally dedicating to them.. And then bring them and distribute to people... Such foods I used to get once my friends do visit their respective religious places.. They dedicate and prepare food and submit to their lords and bring portion of it and with happiness they give to loved ones and friends.. It's so tricky but I still believe we should avoid such food.. Coz it is dedicated... Just don't hurt them.. Take it and don't eat and give to some who is not believer or animal.. I may look rude but.. What else to do.. It's so unpleasant to say them that I can't eat it coz my Lord says so..
Can anyone say what is it that is dedicated to other than Allah...?
I wanted to open a different topic but I hope let it be under this..

jkhan

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2020, 09:27:20 PM »


@everyone...
I have a concern.. When I asked many people about the verse " dedicated to other than Allah"  they have the opinion that animals sacrificed by mentioning the name of any other god/s.. And eating such meat...
But I do strongly believe that it is not animals but any allowed food...other then four forbidden..
For example.. It can be any such food those who dedicate in front of their god's statues totally dedicating to them.. And then bring them and distribute to people... Such foods I used to get once my friends do visit their respective religious places.. They dedicate and prepare food and submit to their lords and bring portion of it and with happiness they give to loved ones and friends.. It's so tricky but I still believe we should avoid such food.. Coz it is dedicated... Just don't hurt them.. Take it and don't eat and give to some who is not believer or animal.. I may look rude but.. What else to do.. It's so unpleasant to say them that I can't eat it coz my Lord says so..
Can anyone say what is it that is dedicated to other than Allah...?
I wanted to open a different topic but I hope let it be under this..

Further concern is, if *Uhilla* (dedicated) to other than Allah is forbidden, then does it mean we can dedicate to Allah? What actually DEDICATE to allah means when it comes to food? Strangely i noticed in four occasions this 'Uhilla' is mentioned (5:3, 6:145, 16:115) and 2:173.... only in 2:173 it is mentioned in different way 'Uhillah Bihi Lighairillah' but in other three occasions 'Uhilla Lighairilla bihi'..

What is this dedicate?