Author Topic: Why Qur'an Alone Communities Don't Exist  (Read 760 times)

Neptin

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Re: Why Qur'an Alone Communities Don't Exist
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2020, 07:53:40 AM »
Coincidently, I have been pondering upon this also.

I might mistake the person for someone from the coldest region or orthodox jewish sect. In the latter, nikab is prescribed though.

 ;D You're kidding, right? I mean the "hijabi" kind of headscarf common among traditionalist women.

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But it is known that the scarf is used as repellent. Non-muslims usually do their research online instead of asking someone else.


Yeah, they start the research online, but the deeper they delve, the sooner they begin to gravitate towards Muslim individuals off the internet.

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Yet majority of the hadithists would choose Quranic west any day over regions that claim to abide by Islam. Honestly, it seems Muslims were forced into sectarian orthodoxy.


They choose the west mainly for economic reason. And the west remain an attractive spot because their community continue to grow geometrically. The very brands and definite doctrines which served in propagating sunnism at the cost of Qur'anism in the 7th century, will continue to serve propagate sunnism in the 21st century.

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How do you explain Christianity? Christians don’t display their identity either, but they are more in number.

Christianity had a 400 years head start over Islam. Christians bear a lot of brands too - the crucifix worn around the neck, the churches marked with the crosses, headscarf worn by women until few centuries ago, church bells, the pope.

But Christian brands are not nearly as prominent and celebrated as Muslim brands. And in part, this explains why while traditional Islam grows, Christianity wanes today. The Muslim community is also more united and committed than the Christian community.

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Quran alone Islam at this point will not pick up speed. Here is why:

Sects have more in budget to invest for their religion.

People can’t get away from appeal to authority fallacy. I haven’t come across any mullah who practiced Islam from Quran alone, yet if he says we are incorrect people believe him.I have a feeling that fox news idea was stolen from sunnis.

Our info sites are mostly banned in middle east and going public is life threatening.

It takes energy to personally study and uphold the scripture. People like to be fed by someone else.

Not that any of these is incorrect, but they are not the true culprit. There are rather the fruits that spring of the root of the problem; the lack of unique brands and the phenomenon of widely differing views among Qur'anists.
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amin

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Re: Why Qur'an Alone Communities Don't Exist
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2020, 07:08:02 PM »
no need for these aritificial communities, they simple cant exist or survive, will not be real Quran alone.
better its to act and believe what Quran advocates, the real Islam and being a real muslim, coexisting with your current community whatever it is. There needs so much give and take between people in a community, the language, the culture unites people more than religion.

When we leave everything to God alone as per Quran, we can co-exist with any other sects. rtituals do not hinders a God aloner, as for us God is sacred and we do not claim anything in particular to be more important than others. We do not differentiate between prophets, we believe everyone irrespective of religion has equal opportunity before God to be Good and get guidance.

being a muslim, or mushirk is apart from religion, our ego decides these.

Neptin

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Re: Why Qur'an Alone Communities Don't Exist
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 12:26:26 AM »
In time you will..

And the sunnites hates the shiites (and vice versa) more than the Democrats hate the Republicans.
And oh did you know that the Sunnis hate among themselves too?
There are more than 1000 factions within a group named Sunniism.

When was the last time we heard of a sunnite v shiite altercation? Aside from the Saudi/Iranian proxy conflict - which in underneath is truly a racial conflict masked as a religious conflict - the common sunnite and shiite get along just fine.

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Not correct, people generally accepted and benefited the revelation of micro-organism, electricity, electro magnetic waves, earth is round, DNAs and millions of other knowledges .And they have benefited greatly from it.

How many people? Most people couldn't care less about the validity of these things you've mentioned. And coupled with the fact that it takes so much investment to verify all these scientific elements, most people are content with the declaration of the experts.

But then when you move into more cultural and social elements, such as penalty for crimes in the Qur'an, dress code, sexuality, spirituality; that's when differences and resistances become apparent among the masses.

And so, the notion that knowledge and clarity will just remove the difference and get people to see things in a way, in your way to be fair, is a pipe dream. So to save yourself the frustration, just form your own group with those who agree with you and hopefully attract more folks to you.


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Knowledge is a blessing, belief is a curse..

OK. So, what is "God Alone"? Isn't it a belief? How do you know there no multitude of gods? And how do you know there are is even a God? What is the knowledge in this?

You can't have knowledge without foundational beliefs. Take for example, the Dalton Atomic Theory. Most scientists accept this theory despite never verifying it for themselves. Which exactly is what belief is - a piece of information that you accept without ever testing it's validity.

Also, beliefs are not necessarily blind, and many of them endured through the ages and pass down through generation because they offered the most logical response or solution to challenges people were confronted with.

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Less channels will resulted in less spread..
Look at the current COVID-19 for example..

No. Think of it like blocking the mouth of a stream. You're not stopping flood at all. The water current will divert in another direction and flood it.

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You should be aware of the division within "The kingdom of Saudi Arabia".
It's far much greater and much brutal than the division in the US.
Saudi Arabia's Lost Princes
https://youtu.be/5Dofn0oDWMw

And it will came to the surface very soon..
When the oil revenue cannot longer sustain the money for obedience transaction between the family members and the regular citizens.

This has nothing to do with religion. And this in no way divides the regular citizens among themselves.

Compare this to the US, where conservatives and liberals are demonizing each other, down to regular citizens. You think Saudi is censorious? Go see how leftists operate in the US, from slurring their opponents to deplatforming  and ruining their livelihood over simple difference in opinion on issues even as petty as comic books or video games.

SJW vs Anti-SJW. The outrage mob is real in the western countries. Families, relationships are breaking apart over differences on political opinion. So you take away religion, and the intolerance is no different or even worse than when you have religion.

And what is God alone? Simply put, it is an euphemism for "everything passes, except idolatory and atheism". In practice, it is akin to removing "religion", but it achieves nothing in removing intolerance among people.


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You're referring to the US Civil War?  :rotfl:
Oddly enough the 'more religious' southerners during that time, defended the practice of human slavery to the nail and teeth...
Heck why not? They're 'negro', not among us.. not a human but a sub-human.. born to be a slave..

The civil war was a conflict between two governments, that's all it is. The individual Americans at time, were at worst divided over slavery abolition. Today, individual Americans are divided over race, sexuality, abortion, nationalism, immigration, movies, video games, comic books, gun rights, freedom speech/hate speech etc.

By withdrawing from religion, Americans did curb religious intolerance and fanaticism, but the consequence is that the people became even more invested in social and political activism. And thus religious intolerance and fanaticism morphed into political intolerance and fanaticism.

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I never see thing as "good" and "bad", did you found any of my mentioning about "good" or "bad"?
I state that today the mindset of religion is a big problem.

All religion, throughout time, serve the urgent needs for the politicians in power (King, Caesar, Caliph) to 'dominate' and 'control' other human being to become their loyal supporters and their willingness to die in order to expand their area of domination.

I think I already addressed much of this. If you want to see what becomes of a world that abolish religion, look no further than the US. Forget the recent debacles and look at the state of political and social unrest among common citizens inflamed over the most trivial things. T

That unrest, that chaos is what religion evolved to control. Knowledge and clarity is simply not enough. A lot of things remain unclear despite human advancement in arrays of fields, but aside that people will reject and accept things they find emotionally appealing. And this is why beliefs - ideas said to be authorized by an all knowing/all powerful entity - became the basis of religion.

What's even more? Our ancestors since prehistoric times couldn't afford the individualistic stance that result from the 'anti-religion/God Alone" rhetoric you're pushing. Religion helped ancient tribes to think and act collectively to curb infighting and to protect themselves from falling prey to barbaric tribes.



Now, I've taken so much pain to explain the need for a living breathing religious community outside obscure internet forum, and the primary reasons why Quranists can't afford such a community. But do not be misled, I do not seek or implore Qur'anists to build any such community. May be I did in the past, but today, I simply don't care.
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good logic

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Re: Why Qur'an Alone Communities Don't Exist
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 04:34:50 AM »
Peace Neptin.
I read a lot of reflection and "intelligent" experience in your posts. This is healthy for the soul.
You say, quote:
"And so, the notion that knowledge and clarity will just remove the difference and get people to see things in a way, in your way to be fair, is a pipe dream. So to save yourself the frustration, just form your own group with those who agree with you and hopefully attract more folks to you."

But surely one should also do things for their own benefit regardless of others . Especially in religion,if they claim to follow GOD s instruction/message when they are told clearly that they will meet GOD individually and are accountable as individuals not as groups?
Agreeing or disagreeing with each other should never stop us from working on ourselves for ourselves by doing and following the right thing-according to our own judgement/checking/conclusions...
Our religion should be what we deduced from our own research/pondering/reasoning...whether we are the only one in that religion or multitudes, we should have our own satisfaction/reasons for this religion. Therefore the numbers in a religion are/should be irrelevant.

As for this, quote:
"Now, I've taken so much pain to explain the need for a living breathing religious community outside obscure internet forum, and the primary reasons why Quranists can't afford such a community. But do not be misled, I do not seek or implore Qur'anists to build any such community. May be I did in the past, but today, I simply don't care.

Ther is no need for any community as far as religion is concerned. It makes no sense if each individual is accountable -No other person can bare any burden of any other person, each  person is in a religion only for themselves first and foremost-
However I agree that we need a community for other social reasons, which can be achieved even if folks in the same community are in different religions.
Deep down we should all care.
GOD bless you brother.
Peace.
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