Author Topic: What does changing the creation of God mean  (Read 4858 times)

Sarah

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What does changing the creation of God mean
« on: January 19, 2020, 05:34:52 PM »
Peace

So when we get haircuts, cut our toenails, when men shave their faces and people dye their hair...we are temporarily changing our appearance. But people tend to think this is all halal.

However, when we pluck eyebrows, get piercings, tattoos...a lot of people think it's haram even some of the Quran aloners.

And it seems cosmetic surgery is seen as totally haram because it permanently changes one's appearance.

So where do we draw the line?

And is 'changing the creation of Allah' meant literally or even translated correctly?
😃👀✋

Mohammed.

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2020, 04:23:06 AM »
Can you think of any prophet without having cut his nail and hair?

We know what would happen if one didn’t cut his hair/nail.
Both hair and nail are dead cells -we won’t feel any pain while cutting it, and both will grow back again.
Hair/nail growth is normal/common; but surgeries are usually done for abnormal things.
I don’t know whether it’s haram, but as a believer of Almighty-Just God, I do not support it.

Conscious and genuine people will already have good identity; they are self-confident and satisfied with their true self.
But unconscious people will try to mask their true identity (they call it beautification). E.g. plucking eyebrows, piercings, tattoos, dyeing hair etc
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]

Mohammed.

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2020, 07:37:08 AM »
haram -meant if it's shirk
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]

Jafar

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2020, 11:51:56 AM »
First I would recommend to shift away from the judgmental attitude and mindset which prevalent especially within Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The before mentioned cultural group always tries to judge everything between kosher and terefah, halal and haram, allowed and forbidden, up to the the intricate details which actually doesn't matter.

With that being said; human has 'changed the creation of God' if you're putting on a mindset of separation between human and God or from another perspective we can also say 'become God's instrument for change' since many centuries ago if you're putting on a mindset of unification of all things (including human) within God.

Among the example are domestic cats and dogs.
The plethora of varieties within cats and dogs exists due to active participation of human.
There are also many other examples, from wheat, rice, apple, orange and many other plants.
Which has resulted in the explosion of human population to 7 Billion as of to date.

Now zooming in to 'self physical modification', my perspective is it should be left back to each individual.
Everyone should have the rights to modify or not modify any elements of their appearance.
There is nothing wrong nor nothing right with that.


Iyyaka

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2020, 12:53:06 PM »
And is 'changing the creation of Allah' meant literally or even translated correctly?
Salam Sarah,

I guess you are referring to verse 4:119.

   Sahih International: And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them [sinful] desires, and I will command them
   so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will change the creation of Allah.
   "And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss.

If this is the case then it is not really deal with your questioning (tattoos..).
Here is the historical context of revelation of this verse:
I quote 2 authors about this verse:

1) Muhammad ASAD:
The pre-Islamic Arabs used to dedicate certain of their cattle to one or another of their idols by cutting off or slitting the ears of the animal, which was thereupon considered sacred (Tabari). In the above context, this reference is used metonymically to describe idolatrous practices, or inclinations, in general. The allusion to Satan's inducing man to "corrupt [lit.," change "] God's creation" has a meaning to which sufficient attention is but seldom paid: Since this creation, and the manner in which it manifests itself, is an expression of God's planning will, any attempt at changing its intrinsic nature amounts to corruption.

2) Maudidi:
This alludes to one of the superstitious customs of the pagan Arabs. After a she-camel had given birth to five or ten young ones, they would slit her ears and dedicate her to their god and consider it unlawful to get any work from her. Likewise, if a camel had been a partner in the birth of ten young ones, his ears were also slit to mark that he had been dedicated to a god.
This does not condemn the alterations that man makes in the creation of God for their right and proper use, for in that case the whole of human civilization will stand condemned as a seduction of Satan. It is obvious that the civilization is nothing but the right and proper use of the things created by God.

However, this verse reveals a fundamental problem: do you work or serve for god or for an idol? Knowing that God gives himself to be known to us as the "all-full of love (al-rahman)", ask yourself if your actions symbolize or active the satanic principle, or not.

Will you make good use of God's creation?

Rahma

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2020, 02:18:50 PM »

Conscious and genuine people will already have good identity; they are self-confident and satisfied with their true self.
But unconscious people will try to mask their true identity (they call it beautification). E.g. plucking eyebrows, piercings, tattoos, dyeing hair etc


That's a lot of generalization --- lots of women pluck brows and have several piercings (let's leave tattoos and dyeing out of this for a while). In fact I pluck my eyebrows and I have couple of piercings. How does that hide my true identity?



jkhan

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2020, 07:37:11 PM »
Peace

So when we get haircuts, cut our toenails, when men shave their faces and people dye their hair...we are temporarily changing our appearance. But people tend to think this is all halal.

However, when we pluck eyebrows, get piercings, tattoos...a lot of people think it's haram even some of the Quran aloners.

And it seems cosmetic surgery is seen as totally haram because it permanently changes one's appearance.

So where do we draw the line?

And is 'changing the creation of Allah' meant literally or even translated correctly?

Peace Sara...
As usual... All your questions you yourself confused...  God questions each individual, so follow with what God guided...  Let people say this is haram and that is halal.. It's their business... Make sure what is right within quran... Do whatever beautification as much as you want as long as it is making you pleased... And not to boast in front of people... I don't see anything wrong being beautiful using what's God given... If you wear a jewellery it is not part of natural beauty.. But addition... If you pluck your eyebrow it gives you pleasure and better look same men pluck moustache /beard line..  If you keep your hair long or shorter or curly or straight all your choice... If you cut your nail short or long.. That's your choice... God has not given any restrictions.. If you lost a teeth and if you replace with an artificial that's your choice that facilitates .. If your tooth are not even if you level them that's your choice same if you fill cavities...
If eyesight is weak if you use a lense then it's your choice... If you are shorter and if you wear a heel...etc etc.. Going away from what God created for beauty and necessity is no harm.. It's not changing what God created... God created with necessity and desire... Use it and be thankful. God made the meat raw.. Cook or fry or smoke.. Your choice.. If you graft a tree for quick benefit.. No harm.. All God naturally allowed that's why it works..
Make your life easier and beautiful with knowledge..
If you can't deliver naturally do scissoring.. What harm in it... If the child cannot hear use a  hearing gadget ... If you can't walk use a wheel chair.. If your loved ones need blood use other people's blood.. Etc etc.. . If God put diseases then take medicine...  You are not changing anythjng of what God created...
God created this whole world without houses.. So build houses for you to live.  So you change the nature for your livelihood...  No harm..
Don't go away from God's natural law.. That's changing.. SATAN entice deception.. Don't get trapped... Don't lie with what God created.. That's changing the creation of God...

As Iyykaka pointed out... Dear Sara you may be referring the verse 4:119 ...
In these verses,  SATAN challenges to God.. Let's refer the verses..
4:117-118 " ..... ..... and they [actually] call upon none but a rebellious Satan whom Allah has cursed. For he(satan) had said, "I will surely take from among Your servants a SPECIFIC PORTION.

Yes.. This specific portion among us is the most dangerous for believers... Be careful from them.. They are in mighty majority..

Then comes the next verse.. 4:119.. Unfortunately I am not with conventional understanding of cattle and cutting ear.. Satan has more powerful thing to do than cutting ears of cattle..challnege of iblees is mighty with anger and arrogance...
So I take for "Adhan" instead of 'Ear' as listening capacity / information / calling / permission / announcement / proclamation ...  And for "An'am" instead of cattle as Good / excellence / favor / bestow / pleasant things/ etc..

So based on that only I take the above verse... That makes sense for me... I know most of you won't agree.. But that's the guidance I get.. Time will tell whether I have chosen the right path or not...

SATAN will. Definitly use such people to change the creation of God by disconnecting the listening capacity of us from all good/ excellent things of God.. SATAN will dupe us to wrong things since SATAN has taken the majority to his web..satan will indoctrinate that great portion he challenged to God.. Then automatically disconnected information of truth thus losing knowing the blessing of God... Creation changed.. 

For example God created this Earth and heavens... But, what is truth?  Is it really what we learned in colleges about the universe is true or the SATAN has changed the creation of God as he rightly challenged God... We are disconnected from Adhan of Anam thus changed the truth of God's creation and in fact changed the creation to another reality which is mighty.. That's my understanding... I am much satisfied with this understanding...
I know very minute people will agree with me.. Coz SATAN has won..

Iyyaka

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2020, 04:56:51 AM »
So based on that only I take the above verse... That makes sense for me... I know most of you won't agree.. But that's the guidance I get.. Time will tell whether I have chosen the right path or not...
Salam Jkhan,

wise words (in bold - above).

I notice that, for this quranic passage, you start from your view to read the text.
But it is necessary and prudent not to mix two time frame:
   1) what a text says about the recipients which are not us and
   2) the lessons that we draw from the text for our current lives which makes the text alive.

The logic is to start FIRST from the point 1 before to go to the point 2, and not to do the opposite, otherwise we do what historians call anachronism or we distort the meaning of the words in the text.

I would not be exhaustive but 2 remarks about the point 1 :

1) Linguistics :

ādhāna = (the) ears.
l-anʿāmi = (of) the cattle/livestock.

- Confirmed by classic Arabic dictionary and ALL the reference of this form in the Quran (intertextuality)

- http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=nEm#(4:119:6) [cattle from pastering – in Arabic context it is essentially camels, goats and sheeps]

- We are mainly urban dwellers in the West but, at the time of Muhammad, having a healthy and a big cattle were a sign of wealth and happy situation

2) Textual Context (Translation inspired by Sahih International) :

4:118: Whom Allah has cursed. For he had said, "I will surely take from Your servants a determined portion.
4:119: And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them [sinful] desires, and I will command them so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will change [corrupt] the creation of Allah." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss.


- If you link verse 4: 118 and 4: 119 together, you understand that a portion/share of the livestock/cattle [pastering] were dedicated to idols under the influence of Shaytanic ideas

   Other similar context:
   6:136: And the polytheists assign to Allah from that which He created of crops and livestock a share and say,
   "This is for Allah ," by their claim, " and this is for our partners [associated with Him]." But what is for their "partners"
   does not reach Allah , while what is for Allah - this reaches their "partners." Evil is that which they rule.


- Again, an atomic reading of the Quran, by isolated verse, may leads us to misunderstand the the factual meaning of the text.


amin

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2020, 10:29:48 PM »
A question,

Can we create a large forest in the midst of the hot Arabian desert?
, it can be a dream of many, but in reality  it cant survive, I see the changing of God's creation is like this, We follow and will so many illogical things, without considering the blessings of God which only finally sustains.

good logic

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Re: What does changing the creation of God mean
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2020, 05:22:59 AM »
It is not up to us to draw lines. We have zero control.
People can change what they want the lines are already drawn by GOD who is in total control.
Let us not  think like Iblis who wants to fool us and we  fall into his trap.
Or are believing Iblis
GOD bless.
Peace
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