Author Topic: Claim on Hell fire  (Read 716 times)

jkhan

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Claim on Hell fire
« on: January 15, 2020, 05:31:40 PM »
https://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/hell_forever.htm

http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

The above two links has a concern to one of the members...  And  requested me privately... But it needs a lots of research.. Coz concern arises with 19:71-72..

Unfortunately I have no time these days for research but only for well known matters I involve. But this topic needs research thoroughly ...

Pls comment on this with your research and understanding..  I do appreciate... Once I have time I will research and let the person know...

I really appreciate if you participate in sharing your views...

The Sardar

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Re: Claim on Hell fire
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 10:39:24 PM »
Salam/Peace Jkhan, i have recieved an answer by a another sibling in this forum since i also asked others in private.

This is what the sibling said:


Quote
Salam my Brother

In the Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful

Q:22;47.......And indeed, a day with your Lord is like a thousand years of those which you count.

The realm between us and the AlMighty is a day equivalent to 1000 years! The earth and the sky will perish! But how old is the earth and the sky when they exist? Let say if it is 5000 years old than the equivalent with of our Lord is 5000 X 1000 = 5 million years.

So if anyone who are admitted to hell, he or she will be there as long as 5 million years which is as good as forever!

ALLAH promise the truth. There are 3 catergories of people, the Right Hand, the Left Hand and the Foremost - Read Chapter 56!

1. The Right Hand ones are those that will be given eternal life in heaven after they had entered the Fire before, as per the Quran in Chapter 74:30 to 39, which stated explicitly who will be the Companions of the Right Hand!

2. The Companion of the Left hand will be those who are Atheist and Zhalim and they will face the torments of Hell Fire, for as long as the earth and sky existed!

3. The Foremost, will be those who after their demise will be with the AlMighty ALLAH! These will be the Prophets, Messengers and those who believe in the Books of ALLAH!

So when the Almighty Lord says in Quran.......

One day will He gather them all together, (and say): "O ye assembly of Jinns! Much (toll) did ye take of men." Their friends amongst men will say: "Our Lord! we made profit from each other: but (alas!) we reached our term - which thou didst appoint for us." He will say: "The Fire be your dwelling-place: you will dwell therein for ever, except as God willeth." for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge. S. 6:128

AND

Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs: They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: for thy Lord is the (sure) accomplisher of what He planneth. And those who are blessed shall be in the Garden: They will dwell therein so long for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: a gift without break. S. 11:106-108

These people as mentioned in the above verses are the people of the Right Hand! They will be in hell for awhile than transfer to heaven for eternity!

For those Left Hand, the Quran says

As to those who reject Faith, - if they had everything on earth, and twice repeated, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Judgment, it would never be accepted of them, theirs would be a grievous penalty. Their wish will be to get out of the Fire, but NEVER will they get out therefrom: their penalty will be one that endures. S. 5:36-37

"Taste ye then - for ye forgot the Meeting of this Day of yours, and We too will forget you - taste ye the Penalty of Eternity for your (evil) deeds!" S. 32:14

Such is the requital of the enemies of ALLAH,- the Fire: therein will be for them the Eternal Home: a (fit) requital, for that they were wont to reject Our Signs. S. 41:28


These people as mentioned in the above verses, are those evil people who did grave damages to mankind and jinnkind and who created corruption on earth! They think they are god!

In Quran 90:11 to 20

But he had not attempted the Ascent -

And what will make you comprehend what the uphill road is?

to free a slave,

Or the giving of food in a day of privation

To the orphan with claims of relationship,

Or some poor wretch in misery,

Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.

These are the Companion of the Right Hand.

So the above verses tells you who are the Companions of the Right Hand besides those who believe and enjoin in patience and deed of kindness and compassion who will of course not enter hell!

Those who do not believe but had attained righteous life such as freeing a slave, provide food and shelter for the orphans and for the poor. These people will enter hell for not believing but they will get out and enter paradise and be with the Companions of the Right Hand!

But for those who are of the Companions of the Left Hand....Quran 90:19 to 20

And those who disbelieved in Our signs - those are the Companions of the Left.

Over them be engulfed in the fire.

Hope these further explanation will be of help

Do get back to me if you are clear with the explanation

God bless you

Iyyaka

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Re: Claim on Hell fire
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2020, 01:39:58 PM »
https://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/hell_forever.htm
.. Coz concern arises with 19:71-72..
I really appreciate if you participate in sharing your views...
Salam Jkhan,

I respond to this article: https://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/hell_forever.htm on what he said about verses 19:71-72.
I quote him:

   "The following Quranic reference provides additional attestation that Allah will eventually take some (many?) People out
   of hell
:"
   "Furthermore, with the exception of Q. 19:72 which refers to Allah taking out the pious"
   "In fact, some of the very narrations that we sourced expressly stated that the Muslims (who are supposed to be the pious ones
   mentioned in Q. 19:72) whom Allah will take out of hell have done absolutely no good thing:"


Again, getting out verses from their textual contexts can lead to misunderstanding and blame the Quran to say that it is contradictory himself !

we can notice 2 mistakes on his own understanding :

1) In this passage the 2 groups are not YET in hell but they have the vision of it (root word ح و ل = "around" in 19:68:6) :

   19:68 By your Lord, We will gather them and the devils, then We will place them around Hell on their knees.

2) The group that will not go to hell obviously did good things :

   19:72 Then We will save those who were cautious (by doing good actions) [in arabic : ittaqaw], and We will leave the wicked
   in it on their knees.

----------------------

My Quranic understanding of this passage :

First, God give us the key for going DIRECTLY to Heaven in 19:60:

   […] Who was convinced/confident AND did good works: those will enter Paradise…

These are the ones who have followed the steps of the prophets (as reminded in the previous verses).
So, 2 conditions must be fulfilled to enter directly into paradise (conditions linked by a coordination wa):
1) convinced/confident
2) did good works.
we have 4 possible combinations.

Second, verses 19:71-72 are within in a broader, more global context, that begins in verse 19:66 where God reports the words of men who expressed some doubts about the principle of the resurrection of the body:

   19:66 And man says: "Can it be that when I am dead, I will be brought out alive?"

The verses that follow verse 19:66 deal with two groups among those who do not meet WHOLLY ALL the CRITERIAS of verse 19:60:

1) A first group which is not wholly convinced by the resurrection of the bodies BUT have made taqwa (good deeds).
God will show them the fire of hell, so that they can see with their own eyes about what they have some doubts.

2) A second group which is not wholly convinced by the resurrection of the body AND have made no taqwa/unjust (good deeds).
it is a reference to the haves, the notables (abundance of goods, appearance and children ie “sons” in the context) who do not were generous.

So, in summary, we are in the presence of 3 groups from verse 19:60 until verse 19:87 (after there is the case of Christians in verse 19:88, who are not wholly convinced by one GOD):
1) Convinced/confident AND did good works
2) NOT wholly convinced/confident BUT did good works
3) NOT convinced/confident and NOT did good works


-----------------
a similar quranic context :

   49:14 The Nomads said: "We have been convinced." Say: "You are not convinced; but you should say: 'We have submitted',
   for faith has not yet entered into your hearts." If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of
   your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Merciful.

-----------------

NB: The quran deals with the possibility number four in another quranic passage.

peace