Author Topic: Adultery - Fornication  (Read 472 times)

Questioner101

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Adultery - Fornication
« on: April 04, 2020, 02:31:28 AM »
Dear members of this forum:
Salam to everyone and hope you are well and healthy especially during this time of trial and uncertainty (Corona Virus).

I have had the pleasure to read your discussions on a variety of topics and was very much pleased to join your forum in search of some unanswered questions.

One of those questions is regarding the topic of adultery or fornication. When you have time please read my questions and if you know, please answer them with the evidence from the Quran.

Sources:

There are a couple of sources that I have used in order to answer the question for myself, but unfortunately, I came short regarding the consequences/punishment for the male (married) adulterer.

Wakas:

Those guilty of illicit sex (adultery/fornication), you shall lash each of them with one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity overtake you regarding God's system if you believe in God and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.
The adulterer/fornicator will only marry an adulteress/fornicator or polytheist. And the adulteress/fornicator will only marry her an adulterer/fornicator or a polytheist. And that has been forbidden for the believers.
And those who accuse the chaste women and they do not bring forth four witnesses, then you shall lash them eighty lashes and do not ever accept their testimony. Those indeed are the evildoers.
Except those who repent after this and do right, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
[24:2-5]


Three components here.
1)  Verse 24.2 talks about two people committing unlawful sexual acts. These two members are unmarried/single. Being married does not make sense in this verse, because God directly orders believers to marry/couple these people with their own kind (unmarried/single people who have broken the command of God regarding their purity). Also, two words to consider for fornicators: zani (male) fornicator and zaniyatu (female fornicator)
2) This verse 24:4 talks about chaste women. Let us assume that both unmarried (never had sexual relations with anyone) and married women (who ONLY have sexual relationship with their husbands) to be considered as chaste. Both categories of women are imprisoned in their homes if they are convicted of lewdness? Adultery? This verse does not clarify yet if its adultery/fornication or lewdness that she is accused of. But if 4 witnesses are produced, then she has to be flogged. So, in this case, we will consider verse 24.4: that fornication/adultery must have taken place.
3)For now, we will equate flogging with an actual unlawful sexual intercourse with someone.

And whoever of you cannot afford to marry the believing protected women, then from those committed to you by oath of the believing young women. God is more aware of your faith, some of you to each other. You shall marry them with the permission of their parents and give them their dowries in kindness; to be protected, not for illicit sex or taking lovers. If they become protected, then any of them who comes with immorality/lewdness shall have half the punishment of what is for the protected women. This is for those who fear hardship from among you. But if you are patient it is better for you, and God is Forgiver, Merciful. [4:25]
 
1) Unmarried free women vs married slave-women
2) Accusation is fahishati. This means lewdness or some immoral act.
3) The punishment is half the numbers of flogging for the slave woman compared to full numbers of flogging for the free women.
4) When is flogging considered? According to 24.2: When an unlawful sexual act takes place. Consider this: unmarried women committing fornication equates to 100 lashes: Half punishment for that is 50. So the slave-woman has committed unlawful sexual intercourse. Unless God makes an exemption here, where even lewdness (not committing adultery) is considered heinous because this woman is married to a believer. Not very sure how to interpret fahishati in this verse.
5) Overall I'm going to assume that a married believing woman must also be flogged if she commits adultery, so it's not only for fornicators.

And those of your women who commit immorality/lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out.
The two who commit it from amongst you, then you shall harm/reprimand them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Compassionate.
Repentance is only for those who commit sin out of ignorance and then repent soon after; these will be forgiven by God, God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
[4:15-17]


1) Word used: fahishatan
2) If 4 witnesses produced they (these women) should be confined to their homes unless a way out is given (death or otherwise).
3) The two commit fahisha (again unclear if its adultery/fornication or lewdness).
4) Repentance only in case of ignorance, otherwise flogging? Is flogging being threatened here? So flogging for the male who committed lewd act, fornication, adultery? Or flogging for both and then women confined to their homes afterwards?
5) For now, we will assume both have committed unlawful sexual intercourse, but we do not know if they are married (obviously not married to each other).

O you who believe, it is not lawful/allowed for you to inherit the women forcibly/unwillingly, and nor that you hinder them to take away some of what you gave them unless they commit a clear lewdness. And live/consort with them in kindness, so if you dislike them, then perhaps you may dislike something and God makes in it much good. [4:19]

1) Not to hinder them meaning she should be able to get a divorce without him taking back his dowry, unless she committed open lewdness (again the word used is bi-fahishatin). If you read proceeding verses, you will assume that this verse talks mostly about divorce. 
2) We can assume in here that a husband is allowed to divorce his wife if she has committed some kind of lewdness

Source:  https://www.quranaloneislam.net/fornication-adultery    (see point #6)

I will not go into details in here. Basically the author believes that rules for both married/single male adulterer/fornicator is the same: Husband must divorce and marry his own "kind" of women just like the unmarried male fornicator. Question: This seems maybe a bit extreme; his family will suffer the repercussions of his sin; both financially and socially.

Source: http://www.islamicstudies.info/reference.php?sura=24&verse=2&to=4   (see point #7)

This author clearly indicates that there are no rules/punishments for the married male/female in terms of adultery.

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The only time we may consider the married male/female adultery taking place is in the verse:

And those of your women who commit immorality/lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out.
The two who commit it from amongst you, then you shall harm/reprimand them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Compassionate.
Repentance is only for those who commit sin out of ignorance and then repent soon after; these will be forgiven by God, God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
[4:15-17]


1) Clear guidance on what to do with women if they commit this sin.
    100 lashes, her husband/male members can confine her in her house. The husband can
     divorce her. God finds another way for her (death, etc). Keep in mind that she can still
     perform her duties in her household even if she is confined in it.
2) The husband can be flogged as a punishment and then he's released. In this scenario, the
     public knows who he is and therefore can protect their female members. He himself can still
     perform his responsibilities towards his family/household.
3) In this verse, repentance can mean to avoid flogging. It seems that repentance is not
    accepted by the ones who were not ignorant of the rules/guidance of God, and thus flogging
    must ensue. Which begs the questions; how can two believers who are married to believers
    be unaware of this important rule.

Even if we consider fahisha, zina, and etc as unlawful sexual intercourse, or very broadly as lewd act, I still don't get my answer as to what happens to the married male who has committed adultery. The only assumption at this point: he may be lashed 100x, his place is hell unless he repents and does good deeds afterwards (abstaining from unlawful sexual acts/immorality). He still maintains is responsibilities in which his family won't suffer from his sin, but he is in danger and must repent otherwise his good works/responsibilities are all in vain.

My forgiveness for this long-winded question. But I have been googling this for quite some time. The only way people answer for adultery for both married male and married females is that of repentance. Nothing wrong with it, but I need clarification.



Thank you all for all your inputs and thoughts (preferably with quranic evidence).



huruf

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Re: Adultery - Fornication
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2020, 03:05:48 AM »
The question is that the state, the community, does not have to accuse anybody of anything. Sura An nur says that the private person who acuses anybody of zina, has to produce four witnesses of it. If he or she does not produce them then he or she is liable to 80  lashes, and inhabilitation as a witness. There is no incumbent that should accuse of zina, but the person who accuses, either produces the four witnesses or he himself becomes guilty of slandering.
And obviously, without four witnesses, duly judicially questionned, nobody can be accused of zina. The mere ennunciation of such idea makes the person liable to a slandering charge, with 80 lashes punishment and inhabilitation.

People should not stop at he first ayas of sura an noor and should continue reading further to aya 29, then the object of the whole thing becomes clear. The whole is not geared to punish zina but to quench the gossiping an slandering of people thorugh sexual misbehaviour. Privacy must always prevail and private lives are untouchable and should not be the subject of gossip. 

Salaam

Questioner101

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Re: Adultery - Fornication
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2020, 06:39:23 AM »
The question is that the state, the community, does not have to accuse anybody of anything. Sura An nur says that the private person who acuses anybody of zina, has to produce four witnesses of it. If he or she does not produce them then he or she is liable to 80  lashes, and inhabilitation as a witness. There is no incumbent that should accuse of zina, but the person who accuses, either produces the four witnesses or he himself becomes guilty of slandering.
And obviously, without four witnesses, duly judicially questionned, nobody can be accused of zina. The mere ennunciation of such idea makes the person liable to a slandering charge, with 80 lashes punishment and inhabilitation.

People should not stop at he first ayas of sura an noor and should continue reading further to aya 29, then the object of the whole thing becomes clear. The whole is not geared to punish zina but to quench the gossiping an slandering of people thorugh sexual misbehaviour. Privacy must always prevail and private lives are untouchable and should not be the subject of gossip. 

Salaam

Peace Huruf,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question(s)..

Can I assume from your answer that there are then no punishments/guidance/regulations assigned to a (male) adulterer? 

huruf

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Re: Adultery - Fornication
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2020, 08:09:17 AM »
does not matter wether male or female. Comandements on that count are the same for both sexes.

Salaam