Author Topic: Fearing God/Hell  (Read 2120 times)

jkhan

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Re: Fearing God/Hell
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2019, 04:07:26 AM »
Brother jkhan.

Again like many other words of Qoran,the meaning depends on the context of the warning/story/statement...etc

For example when Noah says to his people something like "I fear for you a day of reckoning". he means according to his certainty of this day coming ,he can see that they will be punished..
Similarly in 18:80, GOD knows the future and used فَخَشينا, which means" we saw that the boy in the future was going to burden his parents with طُغيٰنًا وَكُفرًا  transgression and disbelief. It is not logical for GOD to fear anything.

Even though both words Akhafu(Noah) and Khashina( GOD ,18:80)  can be used in the two examples above they can  also have other different meanings according to contexts.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace... Yes GL..
 I do quite go in line with you with your above statement... As we all know fear has its own nature... Fear is not one thing... It is a very intricate or rather much detailed word... It depends on situations what actually the word means... 
That's why I simply requested all to go through the concerned verses.. It's really interesting... It can be used for many purposes... Naturally we Know in any language it is same.. Quran is not exempted.. Quran has used it to depict various situations of fear...
So those who take fear as only terrorizing is out of context... 
Look at the verse when Musa brother harun said.. 20:94 "(Aaron) said, "O son of my mother, do not seize [me] by my beard or by my head. Indeed, I feared that you would say, 'You caused division among the Children of Israel, and you did not observe [or await] my word."

Did harun fear coz musa caught him by his beard ? No.. The real fear is causing division among children of Israel... What happens if caused division.. Problem,  chaos disbelief etc.. So,  what is the aim of harun's statement by using fear.   His fear was for a good cause. Isn't it.. Fear for a good purpose..
That's the kind of fear we have on God.. For a good outcome.. That's one of the type of Fears... It's not like we are intimidated by God.. That's bizarre..

KDC501

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Re: Fearing God/Hell
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2019, 07:42:53 AM »
Rahma I think you need to read the Quran more carefully.  Even if we are bought back to repeat life again, those who are destined for hell will end up in the same predicament over and over and over again for eternity. The people who end up in hell are the worse of God's creation. And they deserve to be in hell for that which they have done.

Those who know God fear him but love him and his greatness and compassion. The fear that you're talking about is that of a wild beast in the jungle who can overpower you and rip you apart. This is not who God is. God Almighty grants us mercy and blessings on a daily basis. And for those who suffer and strive in his cause, who die as children, those who live lives where they had no ability to overcome their predicament and die living miserable lives he will grant them mercy , everlasting life and paradise eternal. This is the God that I and those who have knowledge of the Quran know of.

hawk99

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Re: Fearing God/Hell
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2019, 05:12:56 PM »
Peace jkhan

18:80 " And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and
WE FEARED/worried/were scared/were concerned/afraid/ that he would
overburden them by transgression and disbelief."

The fear was of  "transgression and disbelief" or that he would be
off the path.



I suggest you all believers to go through all (khā shīn yā) and (khā wāw fā) in entire quran... That would give a very good picture...

I agree

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Jafar

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Re: Fearing God/Hell
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2019, 10:13:05 PM »
Wishing everyone peace and prosperity.

My question is about the emphasis on fear that we find in religion (and I would say Quran as well). There’s so much pressure on fearing God and His punishment that we grow up with a morality that is rooted in avoidance of consequences. But, really, is this all there is to one’s morality and existence?

Fear is the most effective tools to gain control over others...

We have ample of good example of "Fear Spreading Practitioners" to observe from:
From: Kim Jong Un, Saddam Hussein, Saud family, Pol Pot, ISIS, Al-Qaeda or even regular fundamentalists from Christian or Muslim genre. The list are endless actually.

What are the mechanism they use to spread fear?
The mechanism is "THREAT".

Next question is why... the answer is obvious, because each of the above does not have control over others but would love to control others. And the most effective means to achieve that is through instilling fear over the object to be controlled by spreading threat.

Is it effective?
In the short term: YES.
In the long run: NO.
As can clearly be seen by the end story of Saddam Hussein, Idi Amien and Pol Pot.
Fear will cultivate fear and hatred and at one time it will be so big that it's hard to stop to be fired back at it's spreader.


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What does fearing Allah imply? Fearing that he will punish me if I do bad is to develop a very weak relationship with him.

The one infinite source always have control.
It has no need to use fear to gain control over it's own creatures.


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And as a person born into a Sunni family, I can see how rooted I am in fear. We are made to offer prayers because God will punish us this much if he sees we haven’t prayed; we fast because one missed fast = 1000 years or whatever of burning; we do not steal or lie because we can end up in hell and not get to heaven; etc etc. Fear drives believers.

LOL I knew that very well, since I was born within the same cultural context.

I would like to mention another thing: you better wash every area as required in ablution, if you missed a required spot in your ablution that spot will be burnt by fire in hell!!!!


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If anyone has a deeper knowledge of Quran’s understanding of good and bad that is not driven by fear, please do share. I cannot see why morality has to be taught through fear — though of course fear is always a great force.

Good question, I don't see it either, I don't see it will be sustainable in the long run.
Fear has nothing to do with morality, spreading fear is all about control.

And spreading fear is not a sustainable habits as well, because the fear will be mirrored back to it's spreader making an endless loop of sufferings.

Peace

jkhan

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Re: Fearing God/Hell
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2019, 11:03:50 PM »
Peace believers..

33:37 "And [remember, O Muhammad], when you said to the one on whom Allah bestowed favor and you bestowed favor, "Keep your wife and dutiful/fear to(thaqwa) Allah ," while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose. And you feared (khā shīn yā) the people, while Allah has more right that you fear (khā shīn yā) Him. ..... .... ..... ...."

Ponder above verse for a kind of example...
Does the fear of prophet over the people is something terrorizing? Or is it kind of respect and social image he feared?  He was shy and felt his society would think about him differently...  but God spoke truth...there is no such fear that prophet felt on his society... 
Same thing God says in next part of the verse.. Better you fear me and not society... So what is fear here is in fact respect based on one's action.. Simply behaviour... Showing respect to God by behaving well..
Though I understood it better I could not explain it better... I wish one come up to explain in English better.. But hope you got what it is..

So believers, don't get deviated by deception of Satan... It's your choice... Only we with concern  give our opinion... But every individual is responsible for what they select and do.. Cannot help beyond that... Believers will always be successful..
Gof bless us..

jkhan

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Re: Fearing God/Hell
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2019, 12:43:26 AM »
Dear believers...

I talk to you with love and knowing the reality to its maximum... Be more cautious... Hypocrites are around in this forum trying their level best to deviate you.. Even they may not know they are in a hunt to deviate people but SATAN has blinded their vision with the path of evil and hell.. It's so easy to get trapped into it without knowing to you.. So keep to the rope of your Lord.. That's my advice humbly..
Look at below verse... I brought it for two purposes..one is for above statement and the next is to explain. about Fear...

59:16 "[The hypocrites are] like the example of Satan when he says to man, "Disbelieve." But when he disbelieves, he says, "Indeed, I am disassociated from you. Indeed, I FEAR ALLAH , Lord of the worlds."

Do hypocrites really fear God?  No...  Do SATANs fear God? No.. But they claim so.. Note the above verse.. but this verse is from God.. Why God used this word... Does it mean that Satan or hypocrites get terrorised by God.. No.. They always act.. They are master of acting.. Even with words...  They show that they respect God.. That's the meaning of Fear here..

59:17 "So the outcome for both of them is that they will be in the Fire, abiding eternally therein. And that is the recompense of the wrong-doers."

See the next verse above... Hypocrites or SATAN claims they fear God but their ending is in hell..
So my dear believers who has concern about the word Fear... Please study thoroughly The quran.. Quran itself will make you clear... God never terrorise us...He only warns.. Warns for our benefit.. Like the one who warns before coming of a cyclone.. They warned us.. It may give hard time to take action coz of warning.. But coz we took steps hearing the warning may save our lives...warning knowing the outcome for a good course...
That's what all Messengers did.. They gave glad tidings + warnings.. Both must..
Like our parents do when we were kids.. They love us and they warn as well simultaneously .. We don't like the warning part at that time but they are warning coz they know we are not aware since we we kids..  Same way God the Creator knows human deserve warning to avoid wrong path ..
Try to grasp my fellow believers..

good logic

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Re: Fearing God/Hell
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2019, 05:30:40 AM »
Peace jkhan, all.

What I also find amazing is the psychology GOD uses in Qoran.. GOD knows the humans(most) are argumentative, arrogant and selfish yet they hide under a guise of humility , caring for others and just. So GOD asks the believers to be patient and not to worry too much if they heed the warnings:
.
Is one who recognizes that your Lord's revelations to you are the truth equal to one who is blind? Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.
Basically two camps:
These---They steadfastly persevere in seeking their Lord, ... spend from our provisions to them secretly and publicly, and counter EVIL with GOOD. These have deserved the best abode

Or these---As for those who violate God's covenant after pledging to keep it, and sever what God has commanded to be joined, and COMMIT EVIL, they have incurred condemnation; they have incurred the worst destiny..

Which of the two camps are the majority?
Let me give an example for us to ponder:

I live in the west, the so called land of the free, democracy, justice, human rights, equality....etc.The leader of these country is America. One would expect America along with the developed western countries to uphold justice and treat all other humans/countries with equality. Do they?
Take the leader of the west, the president of the USA, representing the millions of Americans he should uphold justice or the majority will hold him accountable.Do they?
The opposite happens in some cases like his decision to pull out of Syria went as far as diverting his army to  go and"guard the Syrian oil"
Boasting that his job there of defeating Isis is over. So why "guard the oil"? Is this not stealing another country s assets?
Yet his majority are silent, why? His media-feeding his propaganda- is also silent along with most of the other western countries medias. Is this upholding good morals and justice?
Why do we only care about "our people" and subject other peoples to  our gangster rule?
You can see brother jkhan that while some people pretend to be/do good under the guise of freedom/democracy...etc, they subject other unfortunate humans to oppression and suffering and steal from them!!! This highlights the silence and guilt of the majority.
Anyway, GOD reassures the believers not to worry about what others do and that good will be repaid by good and wickedness by disasters here:
Even if a Quran caused mountains to move, or the earth to tear asunder, or the dead to speak (they will not believe). God controls all things. Is it not time for the believers to give up and realize that if God willed, He could have guided all the people? The disbelievers will continue to suffer disasters, as a consequence of their own works, or have disasters strike close to them, until God's promise is fulfilled. God will never change the predetermined destiny.
May the Lord guide.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
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jkhan

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Re: Fearing God/Hell
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2019, 07:49:17 AM »
Peace jkhan, all.

Anyway, GOD reassures the believers not to worry about what others do and that good will be repaid by good and wickedness by disasters here:
Even if a Quran caused mountains to move, or the earth to tear asunder, or the dead to speak (they will not believe). God controls all things. Is it not time for the believers to give up and realize that if God willed, He could have guided all the people? The disbelievers will continue to suffer disasters, as a consequence of their own works, or have disasters strike close to them, until God's promise is fulfilled. God will never change the predetermined destiny.
May the Lord guide.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

 Peace...

For me the below verses are the best examples.. They will never believe.. No use of we worrying about them..

15:13-15 "they believe not in it, though the wont of the ancients is already gone. Though We opened to them a gate in heaven, and still they mounted through it. yet would they say, 'Our eyes have been dazzled; nay, we are a people bewitched!

Isn't it a better example than dead come back and speak.  .yes it is.   Even verses 6:27-28...

The above would be the answer of such people even after seeing whatever they would see once God let open one of the gates of sama for them to reach there... Isn't that the best one would get as an opportunity to see the truth of his Lord...  But knowingly once they be back to the world deny... Why?  Their hearts with denial and love of the present worlds life is overpowered... We believers may take this world's life simple... But for DISBELIVERS they would try to achieve at any cost this worlds life ..you can see with experience what's happening around us is more than enough ... They love this world's life for sure immensely . Though all know they die... Knowing Death won't make any difference to them..
Only believers heart melt with the verses of God...

Every example in QURAN expose humans nature... Adam best example... He knew he is the first man and living in Janna.. But wanted more and git deceived by Satan... That's human.. We always want more.. Don't we? We never get satisfied... That's what made the DISBELIVERS go astray.. Love if this world and its pleasure....
Those who overcome this will definitely succeed.. That's God's promise. .

Cerberus

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Re: Fearing God/Hell
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2019, 12:10:58 PM »
Someone hurt your feelings ? Why don't you make a new thread instead of spamming this one with this nonsensical ego-stroking self-righteous talk ?

Notice how you said your opinion and no one bothered you ? Why don't you do the same to other opinions. People have different views on the content of the quran.

good logic

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Re: Fearing God/Hell
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2019, 04:16:13 AM »
On the subject of fear of hell and self righteous people, here are few examples:

 A self righteous man who was terrified of hell died. GOD met him in the abode above and gave him two choices-Hell or be taken to a top of a cliff and choose his destiny. He chosen the top of the cliff.
On the way there GOD asked him to run to the cliff and jump and make a wish to be whatever he wanted. The man ran as fast as he could ,tripped on a rock and was sent flying over the cliff, shouting"Shit"

A man put up with his self righteous wife for most of his married life. When he died, GOD granted him a job in heaven to test people by asking them to spell the word LOVE, if they get the spelling right, they enter, if not they will be sent to hell..
After a short period of time, the man's wife shows up at the gate.
"What are YOU doing here?" he demands of her.
"Well," she said, "on the way home from your funeral, there was an accident and I died."
The man told her, "Alright, but before you enter heaven you must be able to spell a word."
"What word is that?" she asked.
"Czechoslovakia," he said.

As soon as Mrs. Jones arrived at the gates of heaven, she looked for her self righteous  husband who had died several years before.
"Excuse me," she said, approaching Saint Peter, "but I'm looking for my husband. I wonder if you can help me."
"What is his name?" Peter asked.
"Harry ... Harry Jones," she replied.
Peter stroked his chin, then said, "There are many souls here who have that name. What else can you tell me about him?"
Blurting out the first thing that came to her mind, she said, "Well, the last thing he said before he died was that if I were ever unfaithful to him, he would turn in his grave."
"Ah!" Peter replied, "you're looking for Pin-Wheel Harry!, He is in hell"GOD bless.
Peace.
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