Why gave life to dead in this world itself?

[hawk99]

Throughout my study of Qoran, I cannot find other meanings for the miracles of Moses and those of Jesus except the literal ones

Peace good logic, so "I design for you from clay like the form of a
bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah."
If done literally some would say Isa was just a "show off" a magician.
please address this perception.

                                                             

[jkhan]

Peace Everyone...

I was wondering why believers cannot take the verse 3:49 as literal… I opened this topic only to know the reason why gave life to dead by Isa with the permission of God… but it seems now most of the members are of the opinion that it is not giving life to a dead corpse … Interesting their views as well…
But for me I am satisfied with literal meaning and I take it as giving life to someone officially called dead..
@GL… I am in the same opinion you have perceived in this instance…what you say makes sense within quran..

God said the actions Isa did were SIGNS from GOD with HIS PERMISION… I always wondered what is the difference between God’s WILL and God’s PERMISSION.. that makes a huge difference I presume..

What are those signs which Isa did with the “Permission of God”?
Isa made a shape of a bird… whatever it is.. I don’t think he would have made every organ of that bird.. but I presume he would have made just to give a look of a particular bird with basic features… but he blew and became a real bird…. That’s how God says he made Adam…isn’t He?
That’s for me giving a NEW LIFE to a creature.. totally opposite to give life back to a dead corpse.. So he did the both.. Why I said both is coz some of you claimed above that it is not giving life back to a dead corpse but CURING/HEALING someone who is unconscious or rather in a state of coma… No way… God used the word CURING for Leprosy and blindness etc.. but God didn’t use the word Curing’’ for Giving life……

@ Hawk…. Brother, there is absolute difference between magic and reality… if you are not a magician you perhaps would think even the magic is kind of reality… coz you or those who have no knowledge in magic is vulnerable to perceive so … But real magicians know the difference…
For example . .. what Musa brought was a real snake… that’s true… if it is real even if it bites it should have the effect…. But what magicians brought were unreal/ magic… so those great magicians wondered and even prompted them to accept Musa…. If you say something similar to magic what Isa performed then it is your inability to perceive both….coz you were not there to witness… God says what musa brought were great signs / miracles to convince that community… one of those is whitish glow look when he put his hand and remove…. Is this kind of magic? It seems though, right?... what God does is not magic.. If it is not magic then it cannot be done by any human or Jinn…Do you agree? So what Isa or Musa did is not of his own but WITH PERMISSION OF GOD… Isa can’t perform them on his own…what magicians or physicians do is what they are capable of and what they cultivated of their own and NOT with the permission of God.. But within the WILL of God… Am I correct? That’s my understanding anyway..

I would like to add this as well... verse 2:102... anyone can claim with this verse that WILL and PERMISSION may be same....let's see what members has to say on this....

[jkhan]

Peace good logic, so "I design for you from clay like the form of a
bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah."
If done literally some would say Isa was just a "show off" a magician.
please address this perception.

                                                             

5:110 [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic."

Does the above verse match your claim?

[good logic]

Peace hawk.
You are asking this,quote:
Peace good logic, so "I design for you from clay like the form of a
bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah."
If done literally some would say Isa was just a "show off" a magician.
please address this perception.

Yes, some would say that Isa is a just magician, but others will believe that GOD has done this miracle through Isa. i.e They believe that Isa is a true Messenger from GOD.. Then the  message of Isa- GOD s message- will be the most important thing for the believers, not the miracles.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[hawk99]

Peace hawk.
You are asking this,quote:
Peace good logic, so "I design for you from clay like the form of a
bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah."
If done literally some would say Isa was just a "show off" a magician.
please address this perception.

Yes, some would say that Isa is a just magician, but others will believe that GOD has done this miracle through Isa. i.e They believe that Isa is a true Messenger from GOD.. Then the  message of Isa- GOD s message- will be the most important thing for the believers, not the miracles.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace good logic,

…... I design for you from clay like the form of a
bird...... 3:49.

If we were to accept the above literally, would we not have to concede that Isa
created life?

Allah creates man from clay [15:26]

Isa created a bird from clay [3:49]

                                   

[good logic]

Peace hawk.
All the miracles given to the prophets were done by GOD. So when you say , quote:

If we were to accept the above literally, would we not have to concede that Isa
created life?

We accept that as GOD s miracle- Bi Idhni Allah-. So it is GOD who created, not Isa.
 Like we accept that Moses did not  create/perform the ten Miracles for Pharaoh ,but GOD did.

GOD is doing the miracles to show the believers that Isa or Moses or... are true messengers from Him.Those who will not believe, will not believe anyway ,regardless of miracles.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[hawk99]

Peace hawk.
All the miracles given to the prophets were done by GOD.

True, God controls everything.  Those who witnessed 3:49 did not see God
but Isa.  If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?  The Quran shaped yours truly
into a hawk.   

Secondly, If you would be so kind could you give your translation of this part
of 3:49 
I create for you from clay like a bird

أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُمْ مِنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ

                                                                     

[jkhan]

True, God controls everything.  Those who witnessed 3:49 did not see God
but Isa.  If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?  The Quran shaped yours truly
into a hawk.   

Secondly, If you would be so kind could you give your translation of this part
of 3:49 
I create for you from clay like a bird

أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُمْ مِنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ

                                                                     

Peace Hawk....

I am afraid about your knowledge on this... I wonder where things went wrong for you.. where is the logic hidden ? why not compare manifest verses dear Hawk?

Didn't the disbelievers / Magicians brought by  Pharaoh BELIEVED  in what Musa did with the permision of God as Great SIGN? That belief turned them to surrender to the Creator..

What led the magicians to believe when their magics were overwhelmed by what Musa performed... Did Musa perform it Or God? Didn't they become FOLLOWERS?

[good logic]

Peace hawk
You forgot the rest of this¨
أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُمْ مِنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ
Which is    FAYAKUNU TAAIRAN BIDHNI ALLAH

So the live bird was from the  ceator; GOD:

i:e the miracle was by GOD  not Isa
GOD bless you:
Peace

[hawk99]

It is images, mathal, allegorical or symbolical meaning he makes out of people who cling to low matters and low aspirations like malleable clay he inspires to higher purposes, that is he lifts the from down to earth and  narrow matters to open horizons and freedom. It is real, the real thing but it is not material but liberating for the heart.

Salaam

Well said.

Peace good logic, you still have not answered my question and that is:

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"