Author Topic: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?  (Read 12338 times)

huruf

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2020, 02:14:30 AM »
وَيُعَلِّمُهُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَالتَّوْرَاةَ وَالْإِنجِيلَ ﴿٤٨﴾ وَرَسُولًا إِلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنِّي قَدْ جِئْتُكُم بِآيَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ ۖ أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُم مِّنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ فَأَنفُخُ فِيهِ فَيَكُونُ طَيْرًا بِإِذْنِ اللَّـهِ ۖ وَأُبْرِئُ الْأَكْمَهَ وَالْأَبْرَصَ وَأُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ بِإِذْنِ اللَّـهِ ۖ وَأُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا تَأْكُلُونَ وَمَا تَدَّخِرُونَ فِي بُيُوتِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَةً لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ ﴿٤٩﴾

 "And He will teach him the Book, the Wisdom, the Torah, the Gospel, (48) to be a Messenger to the Children of Israel saying, "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I will create for you out of clay as the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into it, and it will be a bird, by the leave of God. I will also heal the blind and the leper, and bring to life the dead, by the leave of God. I will inform you too of what things you eat, and what you treasure up in your houses. Surely in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. (49)

All those wonders entrusted to Isa as a messenger of God are only useful for those who believe. They are not destined to convince anybody of anything, but to give comfort to those who believe already.

All along the Qur'an we are advised that miracles do not bring anybody to believe, the disbelievers will react to them deriding them as "magic". Truth is the way, the only way. If Musa convinced anybody it was not through miracles but through truth.

If miracles were worth something, blessed Lut could have used some for his people. He would have badly needed them if they were any use. But God says that miracles are no use, that those who reject will always find a reason to reject.

Salaam



jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2020, 03:45:27 AM »
Peace.....

7:105 “….I have come to you with clear evidence from your Lord, so send with me the Children of Israel.  [Pharaoh] said, "If you have come with a sign, then bring it forth, if you should be of the truthful. So Moses threw his staff, and suddenly it was a serpent, manifest, and he drew out his hand; thereupon it was white [with radiance] for the observers. Said the eminent among the people of Pharaoh, "Indeed, this is a learned magician"
Above verse clearly indicating that they are not Musa’s talents or verses of the book but evident miracles which God gave to Musa specifically to go to King Pharaoh and perform...  We can’t say that they (miracles) cannot convince anyone’s belief… it can.. Definitely they can..… Truth is very manifest.. Only thing is, only those who wants to take the truth as truth will only accept the miracles.. Pharaoh knew, but rejected.. Magicians were disbelievers and came against Musa, but they started their faith after they were defeated by extreme truth which was a miracle and not magic… God gave Musa 09 such miracles coupled with God’s verses not just to entertain the people.. but to make them convince that they were from God… But people rejected after knowing them… after convinced…. End result of convinced situation is not always belief… Heart will reject the truth with knowledge…

Same way Isa was strengthened with Ruh Al Qudus and the Miracles and the verses of God… They all were perceivable, literal Miracles… People even were expecting miracles from such Messengers…. We can’t blindly deny the fact that how many people believed in God after seeing such miracles performed by such messengers… We never should speak of what we do not know to be precise… Claiming who would believe in God just seeing one of those miracles in a hilarious way is really foolishness…

God could have send all the messengers without any such miracles but only with verses… but God didn’t do so.. God does what He wants…… We can’t claim why such and such messengers didn’t perform miracles… God did what He knew well… If Muhamed didn’t perform miracles that’s Gods wish so did Lut..’

Okay folks.. if what Isa performed were not literal then what Musa performed? Were they also kind of different things like you claim with Isa?… Just explain..
Okay explain what Isa performed in clear language and why did he do those?.... for example Isa didn’t create a bird like figure and gave life but something else like you all claim… Okay why he did it and the rest? What difference that made to the society and why literal meaning won’t make sense?

These are manifest verses, I wonder why people being believers play around with them… God only knows the intention… honestly doesnt make sense unless you all bring clear evidence to support your claim...

good logic

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2020, 05:36:51 AM »
Peace hawk

You have asked this, quote¨

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"

No because anyone can shape animals using clay
Making the shape alive is a different thing
 The miracle is the live bird not the clay bird ie Isa made a shape of a bird  and GOD turned it into a live bird

Tha is how I understand it brother
GOD bless you
Peace
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hawk99

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2020, 08:53:55 AM »
Peace hawk

You have asked this, quote¨

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"


Peace good logic, I did not pose the question correctly, what I intended
to ask was:

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a live bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"

                                                                       :peace:

The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2020, 10:27:01 AM »
:

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a live bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"

                                                                       :peace:

Peace Hawk and all .

Hope I won't disturb you by attempting to answer to a question you posed to another...
Let's hope the question is common, btw I intiated this topic so anticipate no harm replying...

For me your question is so childish... Nonsensical...  But I am calm with what you keep repeating...  God is with you if you are believer.. So very soon He would show what's right...
Why I called childish is coz...
1.. Isa was not just a guy.... Don't compare prophet Isa with just a simple guy....  Things are so different people to people.... It was performed by one of the prophet messengers... He was given God's verses to communicate and coupled with miracles...
He was not entertainer to the children of Israel to pass time...

2... If a guy turn a clay bird into living bird... Lol..  Are you living in a fantasy world... Who is capable of doing such?.. Who has done in the history with evident proof.. No one can and no one will... That's why it is from God and that's why it is miracle..

3... If I answer to your question... I would say NO...  I won't believe if a guy remember if a guy performs it (for example you or magician) ..  Coz it can only be a Magic... But if I was alive when Isa remember Isa performed while claiming he was a messenger of God and bringing clear verses from God... Then there is no option rather than believing in him.. Coz disbeliving a messenger of God is equal to disbeliving God.... I would have caught the bird and touch and tangibly experience the miracle to verify...

Would you Hawk bird? 😂 lol...

Don't you really know the difference between magic and truth?...
Do you think those magicians who turn the sticks or cloths into pigeons is real or the one who turns blank paper into money? I think you are entangled somewhere in between.. They are not real dude...
Don't think I am joking with you... Brother look. Those well versed magicians whome king pharaoh invited from all cities performed great tricks/magics... For the observers it was almost unbelievable.. Even God claimed they performed great magic... But note the difference... All of those magicians could have easily said to Musa that you are a great Magician and you won today... Couldn't they?  But strangely such great talented magicians knew they were tricking the people but what musa did was manifest reality... That great truth what the magicians saw immediately led them to believe that this cannot be done by musa unless some super natural power behind him... And it cannot be magic... They were speechless optionless rather than accepting the truth...  Coz they were in error without knowledge and the truth of what musa performed trigured their faith to the extent of speaking against king pharoa and was ready for any punishment from king... What is so great what musa did compared to magicians did for the observers ... Nothing much...all snakes... Right?....  But truth and magic has huge difference...
Do any magician claim that he is a true performer... They only claim themselves that they are mere magicians.... Musa or Isa were not magicians and they never claimed as such... And they not entertained people but they warned by their miracles... Weren't the miracles warning?  Further brought closer the people towards belief... They(messengers) had the great opportunity to prove they were Messenger's from God in order people would listen to the verses of God... That's real privilege with miracle... ..a kind of favor...

4.... Further.. What difference it makes to you if the answer is Yes or No from a single person...   Will the miracle of God become void... Further.. GL can never witness it..i mean turning a clay bird into living bird.. I am afraid... So pointless...

Jafar

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2020, 11:25:31 AM »
There were people who at their capacity could cure diseases which common people there do not know how to cure, these were called in different names like Siddhas Buddhas, Sufi Saints etc.., Jesus should be one such expert or atleast as per the later stories depicted such person. Its all belief.
Dead could also mean those incurable, may be brain dead, coma or vegetative state etc.

Qi Healing, Prana Healing.. as it's commonly known in the east since ancient times up until today.

Prana Healing: Destroying A Tumor
https://youtu.be/_0eKKyTlSYg?t=1403


Qi (Chinese) Prana (Sanskrit) the words which have no direct translation in english or other western languages (Latin, Greek, Arabic, Hebrew). Thus what Jesus did was seen as 'miracle'.

Jesus was a spiritual teacher and NOT a religion founder, Jesus never created any religion.

As the title implied, teacher, what he did is 'teachable' and can be done by anyone who are willing to learn.

Afterwards this Jesus figure was put on the pedestal, differentiated with the rest of humanity, Jesus was not merely human, he was more than a human, he was different than the rest of us, he was God and also human, thus an idol was born. A recurring story of idolization...




Wakas

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2020, 03:49:27 AM »
Might be helpful:
http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part1
section 13

Excerpt:

So We said: "idriboo him (M,S) with some of it (F,S)." Like this God revives the dead (P) and He makes you realise His signs/revelations, maybe you reason/comprehend. [2:73]

Please read M.Asad's notes on the above:

Muhammad Asad - End Note 58 (2:73)
Lit., "God gives life to the dead and shows you His messages" (i.e., He shows His will by means of such messages or ordinances). The figurative expression "He gives life to the dead" denotes the saving of lives, and is analogous to that in 5:32 . In this context it refers to the prevention of bloodshed and the killing of innocent persons (Manar I, 351), be it through individual acts of revenge, or in result of an erroneous judicial process based on no more than vague suspicion and possibly misleading circumstantial evidence.

Additional notes:

"the dead" (al mawta) is plural thus weakening the common/traditional interpretation further, as it is not in this manner God revives the dead elsewhere in The Quran.

The expression "God revives the dead" may also mean God revives the spiritually dead, i.e. them who were in the wrong (see the clear examples of 6:122, 27:80, 30:50-52, 8:24), thus, this seems the most likely interpretation in my opinion. Although, M.Asad's is also possible.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2020, 06:27:49 PM »
Might be helpful:
http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part1
section 13

Excerpt:

So We said: "idriboo him (M,S) with some of it (F,S)." Like this God revives the dead (P) and He makes you realise His signs/revelations, maybe you reason/comprehend. [2:73]

Please read M.Asad's notes on the above:

Muhammad Asad - End Note 58 (2:73)
Lit., "God gives life to the dead and shows you His messages" (i.e., He shows His will by means of such messages or ordinances). The figurative expression "He gives life to the dead" denotes the saving of lives, and is analogous to that in 5:32 . In this context it refers to the prevention of bloodshed and the killing of innocent persons (Manar I, 351), be it through individual acts of revenge, or in result of an erroneous judicial process based on no more than vague suspicion and possibly misleading circumstantial evidence.

Additional notes:

"the dead" (al mawta) is plural thus weakening the common/traditional interpretation further, as it is not in this manner God revives the dead elsewhere in The Quran.

The expression "God revives the dead" may also mean God revives the spiritually dead, i.e. them who were in the wrong (see the clear examples of 6:122, 27:80, 30:50-52, 8:24), thus, this seems the most likely interpretation in my opinion. Although, M.Asad's is also possible.

2:260 "And when Abraham said, "My Lord, show me how You give LIFE to the DEAD.(Al-Mawtha)" (Allah) said, "Have you not believed?" He said, "Yes, but only that my heart may be SATISFIED." (Allah) said, "Take four birds and commit/incline them to yourself. Then place on each hill a portion(Juz'an) of/from them; then call them - they will come to you in haste. And know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."

I have no idea by your above statement  Dear brother Waqas what your acceptance and understanding are about the miracles did by Isa or Musa or any other prophets.. How you take... As literal or in your own way... Not an issue...

But how would you explain the above verse in which God explains how he gives life to dead... Is it literal?  Or is it like most of the ahamadiya Muslims says?

Dear All..
Was not what is explained in above verse a miracle... No idea who else witnessed  it.. But at least for Ibrahim was not a miracle?  Didn't the act made Ibrahim's belief strengthen and satisfy as he himself requested?
Was God having fun with Ibrahim showing His might? Or God showed His miracle to strengthen Ibrahim...

somehow like Isa and musa etc did,  this miracle Ibrahim himself did with God's permission... Ibrahim took the birds and inclined them and put portion of them  on hills and called himself... All Ibrahim performed... But who was behind it? God... Same for Isa or musa .. Try to grasp...

If great prophet Ibrahim needed kind of satisfaction about God by having to see a miracle then what is wrong in common folks having to see a miracle from Isa and get satisfied and believers of children of Israel  increase faith as well .... Aren't these two same?

jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2020, 09:34:04 PM »
:

"the dead" (al mawta) is plural thus weakening the common/traditional interpretation further, as it is not in this manner God revives the dead elsewhere in The Quran.

The expression "God revives the dead" may also mean God revives the spiritually dead, i.e. them who were in the wrong (see the clear examples of 6:122, 27:80, 30:50-52, 8:24), thus, this seems the most likely interpretation in my opinion. Although, M.Asad's is also possible.

2:71-72 "He said, "He says, 'It is a COW neither trained to plow the earth nor to irrigate the field, one free from fault with no spot upon her.' " They said, "Now you have come with the truth. So they SLAUGHTERED her, but they could hardly do it. And [recall] when you SLEW/KILLED(Kathalthum) a man and disputed over it, but Allah was to bring out that which you were concealing"

2:72 " So, We said, "Strike the slain man with part of it (with part of slaughtered cow) " Thus does Allah bring the DEAD to LIFE, and He shows you His signs that you might reason"

I brought all relevant verses to clarify... What's the big deal here...
Key words... Killed a man... Slaughtering a cow... Strike with piece of cow on the dead man... And the dead man back to life...

God may not bring the same way all the dead bodies...  But God is giving an example... Look in Ibrahim's case it was different way... How Isa did no clue... And the way God does on the day of ressurection is in fact different... Coz... Dead body is totally vanished... Not even bones  .. So striking with piece of cow or cutting birds in to pieces and calling them is not the same scenario...
God gave example that He is capable of bringing the dead back to life...

Or look at the example 2:259 "Or such as he who passed by a city that was fallen down upon its turrets; he said, 'How shall God give life to this now it is dead?' So God made him die a hundred years, then He raised him up, saying, 'How long hast thou tarried?' He said, 'I have tarried a day, or part of a day.' Said He, 'Nay; thou hast tarried a hundred years. Look at thy food and drink -- it has not spoiled; and look at thy ass. So We would make thee a sign for the people. And look at the bones; how We shall set them up, and then clothe them with flesh.' So, when it was made clear to him, he said, 'I know that God is powerful over everything."

God has different ways of doing the same thing... I mean giving life.. So.. Don't get confused thinking that way or this way is not the way of God to give life..



good logic

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2020, 10:27:59 AM »
Peace hawk.
You ask, Quote¨

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a live bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"

We are fortunate we have Qoran preservation which is the ultimate miracle.
Regardless of who cmes in future, Qoran is the ultimate and true messenger.
Also no one can turn some clay into a live bird in reality without GOD s help.
 A magician  s trick uses a bird already alive

Hence what you are asking is staightforward. Someone sent by GOD will only confirm Qoran s message and explain things using Qoran.
Not an issue ..
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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