Author Topic: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?  (Read 12342 times)

jkhan

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Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« on: December 25, 2019, 02:29:23 AM »
03:49 "And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah. And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah. And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers"

What could be the reason behind giving life to many a dead people again life which was witnessed by the people of Israel...
Is it to make the people convince about the existence of God?  Did they believe in the end?  What advices give  to the people aftet that by letting us know through His book?  What could be the scenario if anyone become alive after he is dead at this time of the world?  I mean a proven dead body becomes alive? 

Isn't that the greatest of sign ever which Isa performed with the permission of God? But why only to small community to witness such an incredible incident ?  I wish it was live all over the world when it happened.. Lol...
God does what He does.. How privileged this children of Israel were... Unbelievable.. God definitely favored them..

hawk99

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2019, 04:47:12 AM »
03:49 "And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah. And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah. And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers"

What could be the reason behind giving life to many a dead people again life which was witnessed by the people of Israel...
Is it to make the people convince about the existence of God?  Did they believe in the end?  What advices give  to the people aftet that by letting us know through His book?  What could be the scenario if anyone become alive after he is dead at this time of the world?  I mean a proven dead body becomes alive? 

Isn't that the greatest of sign ever which Isa performed with the permission of God? But why only to small community to witness such an incredible incident ?  I wish it was live all over the world when it happened.. Lol...
God does what He does.. How privileged this children of Israel were... Unbelievable.. God definitely favored them..

Jesus was a physician as well as a messenger according to scripture.
So he healed the sick both physically as well as spiritually.

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jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2019, 09:01:23 PM »
Jesus was a physician as well as a messenger according to scripture.
So he healed the sick both physically as well as spiritually.

                                                           :peace:

Interesting... Was he a physician... . Never heard of before.. Anyway he didn't do but with the permission of God he did.. But my question is WHY?  why brought the dead alive... I don't mind whatever he did of those other miracles.. But why gave life to dead?

hawk99

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2020, 11:50:26 AM »
Interesting... Was he a physician... . Never heard of before.. Anyway he didn't do but with the permission of God he did.. But my question is WHY?  why brought the dead alive... I don't mind whatever he did of those other miracles.. But why gave life to dead?

Peace jkhan,

Something to ponder.

[27:80] Surely you do not make the dead to hear, and you do not
make the deaf to hear the call when they go back retreating.

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Jafar

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2020, 09:06:42 AM »
It might be that Jesus sees that the "dead" person are still alive and he can see the "aura" are still there.

From the Gospel Of John which might probably the source of this story, the dead man name Lazarus was buried for 4 days before he was being 'healed' to life again.

I've met in real life many person who can see the "aura" of living being, thus such ability to see the aura might not be exclusive only to Jesus. And there are many similarities between Jesus healing practices and Reiki.

https://www.reiki.org/articles/similarities-healing-jesus-and-reiki

Another clue is: what Jesus teaches has many similarities in concept with Eastern religion / philosophy specifically the teachings of Siddharta and Lao Tse. One infinite source of all(Heavenly Father), Kingdom of heaven encompasses everything (here there everywhere), Kharmic law (what goes around comes around), loving, compassion, forgiveness and the attitude of acceptance / no attachment.

The theory / hypothesis that Jesus traveled to the east to learn before starting his mission and went back to the east after surviving the crucifixion event is not far fetched.

amin

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2020, 07:45:35 PM »
There were people who at their capacity could cure diseases which common people there do not know how to cure, these were called in different names like Siddhas Buddhas, Sufi Saints etc.., Jesus should be one such expert or atleast as per the later stories depicted such person. Its all belief.
Dead could also mean those incurable, may be brain dead, coma or vegetative state etc.


huruf

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2020, 04:03:07 AM »
 The mission of prophets is to give spiritual life, not material life. To awaken de dead is to awaiken them to Reality, to God, not to bring them back from death. That would be nothing, because at best it would merely mean that they owuld live a little longer. It is eternal life that is at stake not to exend life on earth. That would be a mission for a physician, which, of course, a prophet ay be, but it is not his or her being a physician that makes him or her a prophet but the fact that they bring spiritual awakening.

Salaam

hawk99

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2020, 12:22:42 PM »
The mission of prophets is to give spiritual life, not material life. To awaken de dead is to awaiken them to Reality, to God, not to bring them back from death. That would be nothing, because at best it would merely mean that they owuld live a little longer. It is eternal life that is at stake not to exend life on earth. That would be a mission for a physician, which, of course, a prophet ay be, but it is not his or her being a physician that makes him or her a prophet but the fact that they bring spiritual awakening.

Salaam

I agree.

Peace all, could someone please give their understanding of 3:49.

[3:49]  And  a messenger to the Children of Israel, Indeed I have come to you
with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay like the form of a
bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah.
And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission
of Allah. And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses.
Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.

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huruf

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2020, 01:01:31 PM »
It is images, mathal, allegorical or symbolical meaning he makes out of people who cling to low matters and low aspirations like malleable clay he inspires to higher purposes, that is he lifts the from down to earth and  narrow matters to open horizons and freedom. It is real, the real thing but it is not material but liberating for the heart.

Salaam

good logic

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2020, 01:13:15 PM »
Peace All.

It is not straightforward and easy to believe in things we cannot comprehend or understand even if we see them with our own eyes.
Some things are not natural and impossible to do for normal humans to do ,like cure lepers by touch , give life to dead corpses...etc
So why believe in such things/ Or do some  play gymnastics with words and find other meanings?

Qoran is not the ordinary book or a book of fiction. It says GOD gives "proof of authenticity"-Bayinat- to His messengers. What does this mean?
To me the Bayinat  of Jesus was  doing the impossible things in 3:49 to show the people that he is sent by GOD.
Throughout my study of Qoran, I cannot find other meanings for the miracles of Moses and those of Jesus except the literal ones done through GOD and His Angels helping these messenger to produce the Bayinat for the people to witness them and the believers to consolidate their beliefs.
I believe they were supernatural things done for the purpose of proof of "true messenger " of GOD.
Is GOD not capable of miracles? 
Some believe others do not, this is the point of the test
GOD bless you All.
Peace.
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hawk99

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2020, 03:26:53 PM »

Throughout my study of Qoran, I cannot find other meanings for the miracles of Moses and those of Jesus except the literal ones

Peace good logic, so "I design for you from clay like the form of a
bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah."
If done literally some would say Isa was just a "show off" a magician.
please address this perception.

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jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2020, 08:57:56 PM »
Peace Everyone...

I was wondering why believers cannot take the verse 3:49 as literal… I opened this topic only to know the reason why gave life to dead by Isa with the permission of God… but it seems now most of the members are of the opinion that it is not giving life to a dead corpse … Interesting their views as well…
But for me I am satisfied with literal meaning and I take it as giving life to someone officially called dead..
@GL… I am in the same opinion you have perceived in this instance…what you say makes sense within quran..

God said the actions Isa did were SIGNS from GOD with HIS PERMISION… I always wondered what is the difference between God’s WILL and God’s PERMISSION.. that makes a huge difference I presume..

What are those signs which Isa did with the “Permission of God”?
Isa made a shape of a bird… whatever it is.. I don’t think he would have made every organ of that bird.. but I presume he would have made just to give a look of a particular bird with basic features… but he blew and became a real bird…. That’s how God says he made Adam…isn’t He?
That’s for me giving a NEW LIFE to a creature.. totally opposite to give life back to a dead corpse.. So he did the both.. Why I said both is coz some of you claimed above that it is not giving life back to a dead corpse but CURING/HEALING someone who is unconscious or rather in a state of coma… No way… God used the word CURING for Leprosy and blindness etc.. but God didn’t use the word Curing’’ for Giving life……

@ Hawk…. Brother, there is absolute difference between magic and reality… if you are not a magician you perhaps would think even the magic is kind of reality… coz you or those who have no knowledge in magic is vulnerable to perceive so … But real magicians know the difference…
For example . .. what Musa brought was a real snake… that’s true… if it is real even if it bites it should have the effect…. But what magicians brought were unreal/ magic… so those great magicians wondered and even prompted them to accept Musa…. If you say something similar to magic what Isa performed then it is your inability to perceive both….coz you were not there to witness… God says what musa brought were great signs / miracles to convince that community… one of those is whitish glow look when he put his hand and remove…. Is this kind of magic? It seems though, right?... what God does is not magic.. If it is not magic then it cannot be done by any human or Jinn…Do you agree? So what Isa or Musa did is not of his own but WITH PERMISSION OF GOD… Isa can’t perform them on his own…what magicians or physicians do is what they are capable of and what they cultivated of their own and NOT with the permission of God.. But within the WILL of God… Am I correct? That’s my understanding anyway..

I would like to add this as well... verse 2:102... anyone can claim with this verse that WILL and PERMISSION may be same....let's see what members has to say on this....

jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2020, 10:51:24 PM »
Peace good logic, so "I design for you from clay like the form of a
bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah."
If done literally some would say Isa was just a "show off" a magician.
please address this perception.

                                                              :peace:

5:110 [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic."

Does the above verse match your claim?

good logic

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2020, 01:07:22 PM »
Peace hawk.
You are asking this,quote:
Peace good logic, so "I design for you from clay like the form of a
bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah."
If done literally some would say Isa was just a "show off" a magician.
please address this perception.

Yes, some would say that Isa is a just magician, but others will believe that GOD has done this miracle through Isa. i.e They believe that Isa is a true Messenger from GOD.. Then the  message of Isa- GOD s message- will be the most important thing for the believers, not the miracles.

GOD bless you.
Peace.
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hawk99

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2020, 11:58:52 PM »
Peace hawk.
You are asking this,quote:
Peace good logic, so "I design for you from clay like the form of a
bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah."
If done literally some would say Isa was just a "show off" a magician.
please address this perception.

Yes, some would say that Isa is a just magician, but others will believe that GOD has done this miracle through Isa. i.e They believe that Isa is a true Messenger from GOD.. Then the  message of Isa- GOD s message- will be the most important thing for the believers, not the miracles.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace good logic,

…... I design for you from clay like the form of a
bird...... 3:49.

If we were to accept the above literally, would we not have to concede that Isa
created life?

Allah creates man from clay [15:26]

Isa created a bird from clay [3:49]

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good logic

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2020, 12:38:18 PM »
Peace hawk.
All the miracles given to the prophets were done by GOD. So when you say , quote:

If we were to accept the above literally, would we not have to concede that Isa
created life?

We accept that as GOD s miracle- Bi Idhni Allah-. So it is GOD who created, not Isa.
 Like we accept that Moses did not  create/perform the ten Miracles for Pharaoh ,but GOD did.

GOD is doing the miracles to show the believers that Isa or Moses or... are true messengers from Him.Those who will not believe, will not believe anyway ,regardless of miracles.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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hawk99

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2020, 02:50:14 PM »
Peace hawk.
All the miracles given to the prophets were done by GOD.

True, God controls everything.  Those who witnessed 3:49 did not see God
but Isa.  If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?  The Quran shaped yours truly
into a hawk.   :)

Secondly, If you would be so kind could you give your translation of this part
of 3:49 
I create for you from clay like a bird

أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُمْ مِنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ

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jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2020, 11:46:55 PM »
True, God controls everything.  Those who witnessed 3:49 did not see God
but Isa.  If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?  The Quran shaped yours truly
into a hawk.   :)


Secondly, If you would be so kind could you give your translation of this part
of 3:49 
I create for you from clay like a bird

أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُمْ مِنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ

                                                                      :peace:

Peace Hawk....

I am afraid about your knowledge on this... I wonder where things went wrong for you.. where is the logic hidden ? why not compare manifest verses dear Hawk?

Didn't the disbelievers / Magicians brought by  Pharaoh BELIEVED  in what Musa did with the permision of God as Great SIGN? That belief turned them to surrender to the Creator..

What led the magicians to believe when their magics were overwhelmed by what Musa performed... Did Musa perform it Or God? Didn't they become FOLLOWERS?

good logic

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2020, 10:00:31 AM »
Peace hawk
You forgot the rest of this¨
أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُمْ مِنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ
Which is    FAYAKUNU TAAIRAN BIDHNI ALLAH

So the live bird was from the  ceator; GOD:

i:e the miracle was by GOD  not Isa
GOD bless you:
Peace
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

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hawk99

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2020, 11:23:31 AM »
It is images, mathal, allegorical or symbolical meaning he makes out of people who cling to low matters and low aspirations like malleable clay he inspires to higher purposes, that is he lifts the from down to earth and  narrow matters to open horizons and freedom. It is real, the real thing but it is not material but liberating for the heart.

Salaam

Well said.

Peace good logic, you still have not answered my question and that is:

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"




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huruf

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2020, 02:14:30 AM »
وَيُعَلِّمُهُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَالتَّوْرَاةَ وَالْإِنجِيلَ ﴿٤٨﴾ وَرَسُولًا إِلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنِّي قَدْ جِئْتُكُم بِآيَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ ۖ أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُم مِّنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ فَأَنفُخُ فِيهِ فَيَكُونُ طَيْرًا بِإِذْنِ اللَّـهِ ۖ وَأُبْرِئُ الْأَكْمَهَ وَالْأَبْرَصَ وَأُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ بِإِذْنِ اللَّـهِ ۖ وَأُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا تَأْكُلُونَ وَمَا تَدَّخِرُونَ فِي بُيُوتِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَةً لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ ﴿٤٩﴾

 "And He will teach him the Book, the Wisdom, the Torah, the Gospel, (48) to be a Messenger to the Children of Israel saying, "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I will create for you out of clay as the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into it, and it will be a bird, by the leave of God. I will also heal the blind and the leper, and bring to life the dead, by the leave of God. I will inform you too of what things you eat, and what you treasure up in your houses. Surely in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. (49)

All those wonders entrusted to Isa as a messenger of God are only useful for those who believe. They are not destined to convince anybody of anything, but to give comfort to those who believe already.

All along the Qur'an we are advised that miracles do not bring anybody to believe, the disbelievers will react to them deriding them as "magic". Truth is the way, the only way. If Musa convinced anybody it was not through miracles but through truth.

If miracles were worth something, blessed Lut could have used some for his people. He would have badly needed them if they were any use. But God says that miracles are no use, that those who reject will always find a reason to reject.

Salaam



jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2020, 03:45:27 AM »
Peace.....

7:105 “….I have come to you with clear evidence from your Lord, so send with me the Children of Israel.  [Pharaoh] said, "If you have come with a sign, then bring it forth, if you should be of the truthful. So Moses threw his staff, and suddenly it was a serpent, manifest, and he drew out his hand; thereupon it was white [with radiance] for the observers. Said the eminent among the people of Pharaoh, "Indeed, this is a learned magician"
Above verse clearly indicating that they are not Musa’s talents or verses of the book but evident miracles which God gave to Musa specifically to go to King Pharaoh and perform...  We can’t say that they (miracles) cannot convince anyone’s belief… it can.. Definitely they can..… Truth is very manifest.. Only thing is, only those who wants to take the truth as truth will only accept the miracles.. Pharaoh knew, but rejected.. Magicians were disbelievers and came against Musa, but they started their faith after they were defeated by extreme truth which was a miracle and not magic… God gave Musa 09 such miracles coupled with God’s verses not just to entertain the people.. but to make them convince that they were from God… But people rejected after knowing them… after convinced…. End result of convinced situation is not always belief… Heart will reject the truth with knowledge…

Same way Isa was strengthened with Ruh Al Qudus and the Miracles and the verses of God… They all were perceivable, literal Miracles… People even were expecting miracles from such Messengers…. We can’t blindly deny the fact that how many people believed in God after seeing such miracles performed by such messengers… We never should speak of what we do not know to be precise… Claiming who would believe in God just seeing one of those miracles in a hilarious way is really foolishness…

God could have send all the messengers without any such miracles but only with verses… but God didn’t do so.. God does what He wants…… We can’t claim why such and such messengers didn’t perform miracles… God did what He knew well… If Muhamed didn’t perform miracles that’s Gods wish so did Lut..’

Okay folks.. if what Isa performed were not literal then what Musa performed? Were they also kind of different things like you claim with Isa?… Just explain..
Okay explain what Isa performed in clear language and why did he do those?.... for example Isa didn’t create a bird like figure and gave life but something else like you all claim… Okay why he did it and the rest? What difference that made to the society and why literal meaning won’t make sense?

These are manifest verses, I wonder why people being believers play around with them… God only knows the intention… honestly doesnt make sense unless you all bring clear evidence to support your claim...

good logic

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2020, 05:36:51 AM »
Peace hawk

You have asked this, quote¨

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"

No because anyone can shape animals using clay
Making the shape alive is a different thing
 The miracle is the live bird not the clay bird ie Isa made a shape of a bird  and GOD turned it into a live bird

Tha is how I understand it brother
GOD bless you
Peace
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hawk99

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2020, 08:53:55 AM »
Peace hawk

You have asked this, quote¨

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"


Peace good logic, I did not pose the question correctly, what I intended
to ask was:

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a live bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"

                                                                       :peace:

The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2020, 10:27:01 AM »
:

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a live bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"

                                                                       :peace:

Peace Hawk and all .

Hope I won't disturb you by attempting to answer to a question you posed to another...
Let's hope the question is common, btw I intiated this topic so anticipate no harm replying...

For me your question is so childish... Nonsensical...  But I am calm with what you keep repeating...  God is with you if you are believer.. So very soon He would show what's right...
Why I called childish is coz...
1.. Isa was not just a guy.... Don't compare prophet Isa with just a simple guy....  Things are so different people to people.... It was performed by one of the prophet messengers... He was given God's verses to communicate and coupled with miracles...
He was not entertainer to the children of Israel to pass time...

2... If a guy turn a clay bird into living bird... Lol..  Are you living in a fantasy world... Who is capable of doing such?.. Who has done in the history with evident proof.. No one can and no one will... That's why it is from God and that's why it is miracle..

3... If I answer to your question... I would say NO...  I won't believe if a guy remember if a guy performs it (for example you or magician) ..  Coz it can only be a Magic... But if I was alive when Isa remember Isa performed while claiming he was a messenger of God and bringing clear verses from God... Then there is no option rather than believing in him.. Coz disbeliving a messenger of God is equal to disbeliving God.... I would have caught the bird and touch and tangibly experience the miracle to verify...

Would you Hawk bird? 😂 lol...

Don't you really know the difference between magic and truth?...
Do you think those magicians who turn the sticks or cloths into pigeons is real or the one who turns blank paper into money? I think you are entangled somewhere in between.. They are not real dude...
Don't think I am joking with you... Brother look. Those well versed magicians whome king pharaoh invited from all cities performed great tricks/magics... For the observers it was almost unbelievable.. Even God claimed they performed great magic... But note the difference... All of those magicians could have easily said to Musa that you are a great Magician and you won today... Couldn't they?  But strangely such great talented magicians knew they were tricking the people but what musa did was manifest reality... That great truth what the magicians saw immediately led them to believe that this cannot be done by musa unless some super natural power behind him... And it cannot be magic... They were speechless optionless rather than accepting the truth...  Coz they were in error without knowledge and the truth of what musa performed trigured their faith to the extent of speaking against king pharoa and was ready for any punishment from king... What is so great what musa did compared to magicians did for the observers ... Nothing much...all snakes... Right?....  But truth and magic has huge difference...
Do any magician claim that he is a true performer... They only claim themselves that they are mere magicians.... Musa or Isa were not magicians and they never claimed as such... And they not entertained people but they warned by their miracles... Weren't the miracles warning?  Further brought closer the people towards belief... They(messengers) had the great opportunity to prove they were Messenger's from God in order people would listen to the verses of God... That's real privilege with miracle... ..a kind of favor...

4.... Further.. What difference it makes to you if the answer is Yes or No from a single person...   Will the miracle of God become void... Further.. GL can never witness it..i mean turning a clay bird into living bird.. I am afraid... So pointless...

Jafar

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2020, 11:25:31 AM »
There were people who at their capacity could cure diseases which common people there do not know how to cure, these were called in different names like Siddhas Buddhas, Sufi Saints etc.., Jesus should be one such expert or atleast as per the later stories depicted such person. Its all belief.
Dead could also mean those incurable, may be brain dead, coma or vegetative state etc.

Qi Healing, Prana Healing.. as it's commonly known in the east since ancient times up until today.

Prana Healing: Destroying A Tumor
https://youtu.be/_0eKKyTlSYg?t=1403


Qi (Chinese) Prana (Sanskrit) the words which have no direct translation in english or other western languages (Latin, Greek, Arabic, Hebrew). Thus what Jesus did was seen as 'miracle'.

Jesus was a spiritual teacher and NOT a religion founder, Jesus never created any religion.

As the title implied, teacher, what he did is 'teachable' and can be done by anyone who are willing to learn.

Afterwards this Jesus figure was put on the pedestal, differentiated with the rest of humanity, Jesus was not merely human, he was more than a human, he was different than the rest of us, he was God and also human, thus an idol was born. A recurring story of idolization...




Wakas

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2020, 03:49:27 AM »
Might be helpful:
http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part1
section 13

Excerpt:

So We said: "idriboo him (M,S) with some of it (F,S)." Like this God revives the dead (P) and He makes you realise His signs/revelations, maybe you reason/comprehend. [2:73]

Please read M.Asad's notes on the above:

Muhammad Asad - End Note 58 (2:73)
Lit., "God gives life to the dead and shows you His messages" (i.e., He shows His will by means of such messages or ordinances). The figurative expression "He gives life to the dead" denotes the saving of lives, and is analogous to that in 5:32 . In this context it refers to the prevention of bloodshed and the killing of innocent persons (Manar I, 351), be it through individual acts of revenge, or in result of an erroneous judicial process based on no more than vague suspicion and possibly misleading circumstantial evidence.

Additional notes:

"the dead" (al mawta) is plural thus weakening the common/traditional interpretation further, as it is not in this manner God revives the dead elsewhere in The Quran.

The expression "God revives the dead" may also mean God revives the spiritually dead, i.e. them who were in the wrong (see the clear examples of 6:122, 27:80, 30:50-52, 8:24), thus, this seems the most likely interpretation in my opinion. Although, M.Asad's is also possible.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2020, 06:27:49 PM »
Might be helpful:
http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part1
section 13

Excerpt:

So We said: "idriboo him (M,S) with some of it (F,S)." Like this God revives the dead (P) and He makes you realise His signs/revelations, maybe you reason/comprehend. [2:73]

Please read M.Asad's notes on the above:

Muhammad Asad - End Note 58 (2:73)
Lit., "God gives life to the dead and shows you His messages" (i.e., He shows His will by means of such messages or ordinances). The figurative expression "He gives life to the dead" denotes the saving of lives, and is analogous to that in 5:32 . In this context it refers to the prevention of bloodshed and the killing of innocent persons (Manar I, 351), be it through individual acts of revenge, or in result of an erroneous judicial process based on no more than vague suspicion and possibly misleading circumstantial evidence.

Additional notes:

"the dead" (al mawta) is plural thus weakening the common/traditional interpretation further, as it is not in this manner God revives the dead elsewhere in The Quran.

The expression "God revives the dead" may also mean God revives the spiritually dead, i.e. them who were in the wrong (see the clear examples of 6:122, 27:80, 30:50-52, 8:24), thus, this seems the most likely interpretation in my opinion. Although, M.Asad's is also possible.

2:260 "And when Abraham said, "My Lord, show me how You give LIFE to the DEAD.(Al-Mawtha)" (Allah) said, "Have you not believed?" He said, "Yes, but only that my heart may be SATISFIED." (Allah) said, "Take four birds and commit/incline them to yourself. Then place on each hill a portion(Juz'an) of/from them; then call them - they will come to you in haste. And know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."

I have no idea by your above statement  Dear brother Waqas what your acceptance and understanding are about the miracles did by Isa or Musa or any other prophets.. How you take... As literal or in your own way... Not an issue...

But how would you explain the above verse in which God explains how he gives life to dead... Is it literal?  Or is it like most of the ahamadiya Muslims says?

Dear All..
Was not what is explained in above verse a miracle... No idea who else witnessed  it.. But at least for Ibrahim was not a miracle?  Didn't the act made Ibrahim's belief strengthen and satisfy as he himself requested?
Was God having fun with Ibrahim showing His might? Or God showed His miracle to strengthen Ibrahim...

somehow like Isa and musa etc did,  this miracle Ibrahim himself did with God's permission... Ibrahim took the birds and inclined them and put portion of them  on hills and called himself... All Ibrahim performed... But who was behind it? God... Same for Isa or musa .. Try to grasp...

If great prophet Ibrahim needed kind of satisfaction about God by having to see a miracle then what is wrong in common folks having to see a miracle from Isa and get satisfied and believers of children of Israel  increase faith as well .... Aren't these two same?

jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2020, 09:34:04 PM »
:

"the dead" (al mawta) is plural thus weakening the common/traditional interpretation further, as it is not in this manner God revives the dead elsewhere in The Quran.

The expression "God revives the dead" may also mean God revives the spiritually dead, i.e. them who were in the wrong (see the clear examples of 6:122, 27:80, 30:50-52, 8:24), thus, this seems the most likely interpretation in my opinion. Although, M.Asad's is also possible.

2:71-72 "He said, "He says, 'It is a COW neither trained to plow the earth nor to irrigate the field, one free from fault with no spot upon her.' " They said, "Now you have come with the truth. So they SLAUGHTERED her, but they could hardly do it. And [recall] when you SLEW/KILLED(Kathalthum) a man and disputed over it, but Allah was to bring out that which you were concealing"

2:72 " So, We said, "Strike the slain man with part of it (with part of slaughtered cow) " Thus does Allah bring the DEAD to LIFE, and He shows you His signs that you might reason"

I brought all relevant verses to clarify... What's the big deal here...
Key words... Killed a man... Slaughtering a cow... Strike with piece of cow on the dead man... And the dead man back to life...

God may not bring the same way all the dead bodies...  But God is giving an example... Look in Ibrahim's case it was different way... How Isa did no clue... And the way God does on the day of ressurection is in fact different... Coz... Dead body is totally vanished... Not even bones  .. So striking with piece of cow or cutting birds in to pieces and calling them is not the same scenario...
God gave example that He is capable of bringing the dead back to life...

Or look at the example 2:259 "Or such as he who passed by a city that was fallen down upon its turrets; he said, 'How shall God give life to this now it is dead?' So God made him die a hundred years, then He raised him up, saying, 'How long hast thou tarried?' He said, 'I have tarried a day, or part of a day.' Said He, 'Nay; thou hast tarried a hundred years. Look at thy food and drink -- it has not spoiled; and look at thy ass. So We would make thee a sign for the people. And look at the bones; how We shall set them up, and then clothe them with flesh.' So, when it was made clear to him, he said, 'I know that God is powerful over everything."

God has different ways of doing the same thing... I mean giving life.. So.. Don't get confused thinking that way or this way is not the way of God to give life..



good logic

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2020, 10:27:59 AM »
Peace hawk.
You ask, Quote¨

"If a guy takes some clay and turns it into a live bird would you become
a follower of his for that reason alone?"

We are fortunate we have Qoran preservation which is the ultimate miracle.
Regardless of who cmes in future, Qoran is the ultimate and true messenger.
Also no one can turn some clay into a live bird in reality without GOD s help.
 A magician  s trick uses a bird already alive

Hence what you are asking is staightforward. Someone sent by GOD will only confirm Qoran s message and explain things using Qoran.
Not an issue ..
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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Noon waalqalami

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2020, 11:54:52 AM »
2:72 " So, We said, "Strike the slain man with part of it (with part of slaughtered cow) " Thus does Allah bring the DEAD to LIFE, and He shows you His signs that you might reason"

I brought all relevant verses to clarify... What's the big deal here...
Key words... Killed a man... Slaughtering a cow... Strike with piece of cow on the dead man... And the dead man back to life...

peace -- big deal is reading comprehension and assumptions in translation.

2:11 واذا wa-idha/and when of (with alif, time adverb present/future)

2:30 واذ wa-idh/and when (time adverb past separate event/episode)

not linear events i.e. slaughter cow and next day they killed someone.

2:34 واذ and when قلنا said we of للملىكه to the controllers (angels)
2:49 واذ and when نجىنكم save we you من from ال family فرعون firawna
2:50 واذ and when ...
2:51 واذ and when ...
2:53 واذ and when ...
2:54 واذ and when ...
2:55 واذ and when ...
2:58 واذ and when ...
2:60 واذ and when ...
2:61 واذ and when ...
2:63 واذ and when ...
2:67 واذ and when ...
2:72 واذ wa-idh/and when (time adverb past separate event/episode)

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/72?handschrift=163


jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2020, 07:23:18 PM »
peace -- big deal is reading comprehension and assumptions in translation.

2:11 واذا wa-idha/and when of (with alif, time adverb present/future)

2:30 واذ wa-idh/and when (time adverb past separate event/episode)

not linear events i.e. slaughter cow and next day they killed someone.

2:34 واذ and when قلنا said we of للملىكه to the controllers (angels)
2:49 واذ and when نجىنكم save we you من from ال family فرعون firawna
2:50 واذ and when ...
2:51 واذ and when ...
2:53 واذ and when ...
2:54 واذ and when ...
2:55 واذ and when ...
2:58 واذ and when ...
2:60 واذ and when ...
2:61 واذ and when ...
2:63 واذ and when ...
2:67 واذ and when ...
2:72 واذ wa-idh/and when (time adverb past separate event/episode)

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/72?handschrift=163



Peace brother..
Thank you..
Would you pls translate without any Arabic word in total English the verses 2:71-73 in order to perceive whether there is any constructive meaning..
God bless you

jkhan

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2020, 05:22:39 AM »
peace -- big deal is reading comprehension and assumptions in translation.

2:11 واذا wa-idha/and when of (with alif, time adverb present/future)

2:30 واذ wa-idh/and when (time adverb past separate event/episode)

not linear events i.e. slaughter cow and next day they killed someone.



Peace all... .
@ NWQ...
Even you translate or not the above three verses in your way.. they would remain same for me coz verses are clear and what I took is not away from grammar either.. Coz God has used "with part of it"...that you can only play with verses to give meaning unless continue with the previous verses to comprehend .. But..
Did I tell you that the difference between  Wa'idha and Wa'idh same...
Now did I gave you an impression that the killing of a person took place AFTER slaughtering the cow... does the verses even speak so? In fact it did happen before slaughtering the cow.. God did expose the killing ... And know that once the slaughtering of cow took place God ordered to smite with a piece of it to already dead person by reminding their killing... There is no language connection with slaughter and killing a person... It's not continuos story.. They are in fact separate actions ..Try to grasp it..
Why God requested to slaughter a cow that also with all those questions and clarification.. Once they slaughtered why reminding of murdered person and smite at the body with part of it?  With what?  What is this "WITH PART OF IT" Bi'Ba'di'Ha?
Go through all wa'idha and wa'idh  or simply all 'idh'  and 'idha' verses.. You don't see any difference to this verse.. Dear NWQ.. Before come up with responses. Think twice and verify..
Or else don't bring another old copy saying Alif is added.. Lol 😂



Wakas

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Re: Why gave life to dead in this world itself?
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2020, 08:21:04 AM »
peace jkhan, all,

My general view on the issue of "miracles" in the stories in Quran is that if they can be explained by natural phenomenon (even if it is rare) then they are not "miracles" going by the word's definition (i.e. an extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency.).

If an example is found that cannot be explained by any known (or theoretical) natural phenomenon or it's not a parable, metaphor etc then I'd be willing to consider it as a potential "miracle". There is some interesting theological issues either way.


With regards to 2:73 please see the detailed analysis here, section 13. You can even see what happened when brother Burhan debated its meaning with me (from here onward).
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org