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30:3 lowest point on earth?

Started by seekingtruth1111, December 13, 2019, 07:26:06 AM

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seekingtruth1111

Lowest/Deepest point of earth discovered in Antarctica

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50753113

Time to update 30:3  translation ?

The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
30:3 At the lowest part on the earth. But after their victory, they will be defeated.


good logic

Peace 

There is a big difference between the lowest point of the iceberg in the sea and the lowest point of the land. Sea and land are not the same.
Qoran identifies the lowest point of the land.
One can also point to the deepest point in the sea and say this is even deeper.,so there is a difference between:

1-The deepest point on continental Earth has been identified in East Antarctica, under Denman Glacier.

2-For comparison, the lowest exposed land on Earth, at the Dead Sea shore, is just 413m (1,355ft) below sea level.

Nevertheless, 2 is still the lowest exposed land on earth. The glacier has not melted yet. It may not do for ....
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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Layth

I am always amazed how specific the Quran can be when it wants to teach us.

Lowest part of the Earth = Dead Sea = Battle of Muttah where the Muslims were defeated and their remains are still found in burial sites around the area.

`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

jkhan

Peace...
Yes... Sea and earth is entirely different... That's very clear with Quranic verses....
But why you people still call that lowest part of the earth is dead sea... Why dead SEA?  it cannot be sea it should be land... Isn't it... I know that you are referring dead the Luts Lake... But water basin cannot be Earth.. I mean Land
Let us die with guidance

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good logic

Peace.
We are on about the lowest exposed land on Earth, at the Dead Sea shore, land that is just 413m (1,355ft) below sea level.

Not the dead sea.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/[/url]

jkhan

Peace everyone

In Quran in my understanding two type of verses.  One direct way to understand and other is exploration and further studies and comparison....
First direct shouldn't deviate.. For example orders.. If God orders to do so something (fasting)  this cannot vary in understanding coz only one thing God ordered to do and Mohamed did only one thing...
The second type No harm most probably if we vary but better to converge to one meaning.. Example Ibrahim's sacrifice or the above topic... But we cannot speak against truth as well..

So in my understanding verse 30:3 is referring the CLOSE-BY LAND... they fought in a place near and not far from them.. Coz Rome is so far from Israel or Petra.. Quran never indicate Red Sea area.. No clue you can derive... This lowest is just invention to show that it is a miracle coz science has found out to date lowest in the Earth is near dead Sea area.. They may change it time to time... But the place where they fought and won will remain same... This is one of the latest chapters revealed so strength of Mohamed and companions would have been mighty... But later romans would have won not with believers but with those who was in power distorting God's way and that time those believers rejoice... Both incident could be at lengthy period... First while Mohamed was alive..then defeat well after from then romans took control over these areas...
I had a rare smile by the quote of ST1111... " time to update 30:3 translation"
I hope you get me.. In fact it should be updated as 'near, closer" not lowest... Simply close-by land.. Close-by to where those lived and not close-by to where romans lived..
I won't blame those who claim lowest... But I am afraid no support from Quran... In my understanding.. I am satisfied with what I explained above..

If you explore QURAN you will find word used for the lowest snd not what you claim
Let us die with guidance

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Layth

Salam jkhan.

It seems you are taking the traditional reading of 30:3 which is what is causing this understanding.

Traditional: Rome fought and lost, then they fought and won.

Non-Traditional: Rome fought and won, then they fought and lost.

If you take the 1st understanding, then the Dead Sea area does not fit with the concept of the Roman/Persian war.

If you take the 2nd, then it all fits together as it is a Roman/Muslim war.

Saying "adna" is "nearest" simply ads no value to the statement as all wars are fought near or far. Also, "adna" has been used in the Quran for lowest (see 2:61) - which is consistent to this context.

`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

jkhan

Quote from: Layth on December 14, 2019, 01:17:10 AM
Salam jkhan.

It seems you are taking the traditional reading of 30:3 which is what is causing this understanding.

Traditional: Rome fought and lost, then they fought and won.

Non-Traditional: Rome fought and won, then they fought and lost.

If you take the 1st understanding, then the Dead Sea area does not fit with the concept of the Roman/Persian war.

If you take the 2nd, then it all fits together as it is a Roman/Muslim war.

Saying "adna" is "nearest" simply ads no value to the statement as all wars are fought near or far. Also, "adna" has been used in the Quran for lowest (see 2:61) - which is consistent to this context.

Peace brother Layth
...
Thank you for your response.. .. That's why I said such differences of understanding is no harm.. It can happen while  learning quran..  Truth may not be that though .. I don't take traditional understanding but best way thru quran..
Note below verse for lowest.. ( sīn fā lām) this word suit best for lowest within Quran.. Read all sīn fā lām for clarification... Reference you cited 2:61 doesn't give the "Lowest" but it can mean inferior or the opposite to good(khair)

4:145 "Indeed, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire - and never will you find for them a helper"


Let us die with guidance

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Mazhar

QuoteSaying "adna" is "nearest" simply ads no value to the statement as all wars are fought near or far. Also, "adna" has been used in the Quran for lowest (see 2:61) - which is consistent to this context.

Both are different. In 2:61 it is comparative while here it is superlative.


قَالَ أَتَسْتَبْدِلُونَ ٱلَّذِى هُوَ أَدْنَـىٰ بِٱلَّذِى هُوَ خَيْـرٌۚ

He (Mūsā alahissalam) said; "Are you people seeking replacement which is inferior in place of that which is better one?

انہوں (موسیٰ علیہ السلام)نے کہا"کیا تم اُس طعام کو جوزیادہ بہتر ہے اُس شئے سے بدلنا چاہتے ہو جونسبتاً ادنیٰ ہے؟


فِـىٓ أَدْنَـى ٱلۡأَرْضِ

This defeat has taken place within the lowest place of the Earth



[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Layth

Salam brother.

We are not in disagreement on the variations in meanings of words (like "ayah" can mean "sign" or "verse" - depending on context).

If you take Rome/Persia version, then "adna" fits better as "near" - if you take the Rome/Muslim version, then "adna" fits better as "lowest".

That is why I was asking which reading you are looking at.

Rome/Muslim battles have been documented. First battle occurring at Mutah in 629AD (present day Jordan - near the Dead Sea), second battle occurred at Yarmouk in 636AD(present day Syria/Israel). First battle was a victory for Rome, second was a defeat. Battles occurred within 7-years of each other, which is in-line with the word "bid3 sineen" (a few years "3-10 max").

Roman/Persian battles are a mess lasting 721 years and taking place all over the Middle East.
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)