Author Topic: DABA = AI  (Read 4878 times)

jkhan

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Re: DABA = AI
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2019, 06:32:45 PM »
Peace,

The 'AI' that we have today I wouldn't describe them as AI's but rather cleverly designed programs to give the appearance of intelligence. AI's like Google, Alexa, Siri, and Cortana, these AI's have no real intelligence. All responses and tasks are programmed. For example, if the user asks for a specific task to be done, based on the conditions programmed to handle such requests, the AI will execute accordingly. This is not intelligence. When programmers or engineers use the term AI to describe such programs/software they're being disingenuous. Not one program ever designed by man has any real intelligence. These systems that they describe as having AI are just for marketing purposes.

The creature described in Sura 27:82 can be described as a computer because anything that has been made by earthly materials and can 'speak' must be mechanical in nature. Please note that the verse never stated that the 'creature' had real intelligence. But rather it allowed human beings to see God's signs. That's all.

Regards,

Kevin

Peace.. Quite agreeable with you what you say but AIs are in use in many sectors..
However.. Let's wait and see what the verse speak of..  Coz it says people don't believe in God's verses but with what the creature speaks they seems believe in it.. It doesn't mean they believe in God but it seems too late... Isn't it..

Noon waalqalami

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Re: DABA = AI
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2019, 06:39:20 PM »
peace, AI is only a marketing buzz word and a computer is a tool like 5,000-year-old abucas.
To give an analogy: a hound dog is on a trail comes to a fork in the road sniffs A false then also sniffs B and continues whereas a human is more efficient (if then else logic) e.g. IF not A THEN B which can be programmed even so it’s only dumb code whereas the dog can adapt to unforeseen possibilities, hence intelligent.


Layth

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Re: DABA = AI
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2019, 10:42:22 PM »
Salam.

I think the point I was trying to convey has gotten muddled in this discussion.

The "signs" of the Quran are sometimes subtle and can be overlooked for those who do not understand what to look for...

For example, the "splitting of the moon" (54:1) is a sign that many people believe happened at the time of the prophet and then the moon was put back together again, while some are still waiting for the event to happen (where the moon breaks into pieces)...then you have a more subtle reading where it is believed that the event took place in 1969 when man "breached the moon" (which is a meaning of "Inshaqa").

I would propose the same for 27:82. People can wait for a Dragon to come out from the Earth and lecture them on the merits of faith in God, or...it can be a subtle sign - like a robot (daba) having the ability to speak to people in limited intelligence.   
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

jkhan

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Re: DABA = AI
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2019, 10:48:51 PM »
Peace.. Quite agreeable with you what you say but AIs are in use in many sectors..
However.. Let's wait and see what the verse speak of..  Coz it says people don't believe in God's verses but with what the creature speaks they seems believe in it.. It doesn't mean they believe in God but it seems too late... Isn't it..

Peace..
If add a bit.. Why computer could be the creature is coz,  God says people were unaware of our signs... So with the discovery of computer and relevant products such mobiles which is prevelance in everyone's hand may expose the signs of God coz everything is so close.. Only thing we have to ponder what is truth... Looking God's creation at the time of revelation of quran and now is super easy... Good creation and miracles of this wonderful world is much exposed and everyone is much facilitated to witness them.. That may also be what God says by the verse 27:82..

jkhan

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Re: DABA = AI
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2019, 11:36:45 PM »
..

For example, the "splitting of the moon" (54:1) is a sign that many people believe happened at the time of the prophet and then the moon was put back together again, while some are still waiting for the event to happen (where the moon breaks into pieces)...then you have a more subtle reading where it is believed that the event took place in 1969 when man "breached the moon" (which is a meaning of "Inshaqa").



Totally not necessary to bring this example of moon landing... You have no proof dear brother Layth.. No eyewitness... Is there?..  Just coz computers are there doesn't mean we have to believe everything what computer says...
Below is the verse you support for it..

54:01-02 "The Hour has come near, and the moon has split. Yet if they see a sign they turn away, and they say 'A continuous sorcery."

The above two verses never talk of moon landing....  Even if take so.. Just see the next verse... It says people deny it... So.. In current day literate people almost 98% of them believe in moon landing and they do respect it and they only mock the very minute community who are against it...
But in this verse God seems referring people mock in majority... Majority of the nit say it is sorcery but only very minority is telling it is a concocted story... Duped us..
So God's claim after moon landing and seeing the sign is pretty weak...
That's not moon landing at all... Whole world not mock but respect...
Are the majority of people on earth say that moon landing a sorcery? No way...
Bit off topic here but still had to speak up... I know you won't like it.. But that's my vuew...man never landed on moon and never will and never can and not a place to land...

jkhan

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Re: DABA = AI
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2019, 02:18:07 AM »

Peace.


May be God forgot to mention Mars landing or any other landing on any other planet.. More to come..plans are afoot.. Whatever landing take place after 1969 is more nearer to the Hour than moon landing... Wait and see they may land in some other planet moons.. So we have to shift the verse... The same people who claimed that they were successful in landing moon claims that another billions of years to go for the doom of this universe...  So not that NEAR for the Hour .. isn't it?

I strongly believe that this verse 54:01-02 is already happened while the Quran was revealed...
I can't prove though.. Only my personal understanding... That's all.. What i think is.. That this same moon we see now is not the same from the beginning.. I believe it was without any blemish.. I mean without any crater looking appearance on it...  But.. With this verse it may have changed.. Moon split and craters appeared on it... From then onwards we see this moon with blemishes on it. People  saw it(Signs) then but no one got it seriously.. They neglected it... That's my personal belief...
Man will never land on moon and moon will not get split/craters again... All happened...
Man landed and took pieces of rocks is mere fish story...
God says moon split itself ... Not man landed on it and split it by taking rocks... The word used for split can be used for a small split like a seed split earth or huge split of earth or anything itself..

Layth

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Re: DABA = AI
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2019, 03:30:33 AM »
Dear Jkhan,

Quote
54:01-02 "The Hour has come near, and the moon has split. Yet if they see a sign they turn away, and they say 'A continuous sorcery."

The above two verses never talk of moon landing....  Even if take so.. Just see the next verse... It says people deny it... So.. In current day literate people almost 98% of them believe in moon landing and they do respect it and they only mock the very minute community who are against it...

Where in the Quran did you get this information from that "the majority will deny"? It is clearly not coming from 54:1-2 that you have quoted...Yet, you have stated it as if it's a fact.

The Quran tells us that those who have "deviated" from the Message of God are the ones who go about saying this...That they like to follow established norms (54:3).

So, please share, where did you learn this from that the moon landing was fake? Did you hear it from the scientists or the majority of civilized people (as you have pointed out believe in this), or, did you hear this from the mushrikeen and idol worshipers who until today cannot fathom that science is real nor that the Earth is even a globe?

Quote
May be God forgot to mention Mars landing or any other landing on any other planet.. More to come..plans are afoot.. Whatever landing take place after 1969 is more nearer to the Hour than moon landing... Wait and see they may land in some other planet moons.. So we have to shift the verse... The same people who claimed that they were successful in landing moon claims that another billions of years to go for the doom of this universe...  So not that NEAR for the Hour .. isn't it?

I'm not clear what you are mentioning here. The sign that we are told to look for is the breaching of the moon - not any other planet or asteroid. Also, you have correctly pointed out that only the moon landing has been rejected as predicted in the Quran, not any other landing.

Quote
God says moon split itself ... Not man landed on it and split it by taking rocks... The word used for split can be used for a small split like a seed split earth or huge split of earth or anything itself..

I have not said anywhere that taking rocks "split" the moon. I have said that the word "inshaq" is used in the Arabic language as both "torn/breach" - we would say "the boy 'shaqa' his way to school" (the boy made his way to school) - not tore. Therefore, if I am looking for the act of "breaching/making way" towards the moon, then I have that event (discounting the rejection and false moon landing issue).
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

jkhan

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Re: DABA = AI
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2019, 05:43:23 AM »
Dear Jkhan,

Where in the Quran did you get this information from that "the majority will deny"? It is clearly not coming from 54:1-2 that you have quoted...Yet, you have stated it as if it's a fact.

The Quran tells us that those who have "deviated" from the Message of God are the ones who go about saying this...That they like to follow established norms (54:3).

So, please share, where did you learn this from that the moon landing was fake? Did you hear it from the scientists or the majority of civilized people (as you have pointed out believe in this), or, did you hear this from the mushrikeen and idol worshipers who until today cannot fathom that science is real nor that the Earth is even a globe?

I'm not clear what you are mentioning here. The sign that we are told to look for is the breaching of the moon - not any other planet or asteroid. Also, you have correctly pointed out that only the moon landing has been rejected as predicted in the Quran, not any other landing.

I have not said anywhere that taking rocks "split" the moon. I have said that the word "inshaq" is used in the Arabic language as both "torn/breach" - we would say "the boy 'shaqa' his way to school" (the boy made his way to school) - not tore. Therefore, if I am looking for the act of "breaching/making way" towards the moon, then I have that event (discounting the rejection and false moon landing issue).

I know the topic is not relevant to moon landing... But still no harm sharing thoughts since cropped up...

Brother... God said in quran the people who reject is more and in majority.. That I don't have to emphasize...
54:03 " And they DENIED and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement..
DENIERS of the SIGNS of god are always doomed..deniers are always among majority... That's why I said after witnessing moon landing which party were more?  Deniers or believers?  In fact believers on moon landing were more and still... While believers were more how can God claim that they deny the sign which of course moon landing..while majority on Earth has accepted moon landing strongly God doesn't need to refer the minority by saying denying ..
If in fact God refered moon landing and thus split it by verse then God instead should speak proudly saying people believed the moon landing in multitude  . .. no need to say denied.. No need to call they said sorcery... God would have spoken what majority reacted after moon landing... But unfortunately what God spoke not matching to what majority reacted.. Majority accepted His sign if it was moon landing by the verse..

good logic

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Re: DABA = AI
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2019, 09:32:59 AM »
Peace jkhan.
Moon landing and majority denying are not about the same subject.
One is talking about the moon, the other is talking about the majority not believing GOD s sign/miracle  when they will see it.

One happened in 1969, the other(sign/miracle) happened in 1974.
Or are you taking the moon landing as the sign/miracle people saw?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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good logic

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Re: DABA = AI
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2019, 09:34:31 AM »
Peace jkhan.
Moon landing and majority denying are not about the same subject.
One is talking about the moon, the other is talking about the majority not believing GOD s sign/miracle  when they will see it.

One happened in 1969, the other(sign/miracle) happened in 1974.
Or are you taking the moon landing as the sign/miracle people saw?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/