Author Topic: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...  (Read 916 times)

jkhan

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1064
  • Karma +2/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2019, 08:24:11 PM »
It's a propagandized dogma that Quran is the last and/or only guidance from the creator and/or was not authored by creatures.

The fact is revelation and guidance never stopped and always available through trillion of channels / media / languages / symbolism / means. Always available to those who asked and ponder.
Any sincere truth seeker will eventually realized this.

Abraham never read the quran but he was refered as a muslim (without the capital "I")
Jesus never read the quran but he was refered as a muslim (without the capital "I")
Jesus companions never read the quran but he was refered as a muslim (without the capital "I")

Peace Jafar...

3rd paragraph... How do you say this with apt knowledge that Ibrahim and Isa etc without the support of  book/s...to say this you should have read at least quran... So you accept it and claim so... Isn't... To claim it so and indirectly negate quran is thought to be propagandized dogma from God and not in fact is contrary to what you say...

Your second paragraph is well known...  Whatever around us will make us observe and learn and if we are good enough  we would get guided but God willed.. But revelation in spoken form is no more... (through messenger prophet no more)

Your first paragraph is depending on who says so... Quran is of course seal of direct messages coming to a messenger  and then he delivers... That's one of the ways God talks to human... That's no more after Quran... If you accept Quran though... But guidance will keep flowing eversince believers are around on this earth... Everything God created is a sign and if we apply thought to it then guidance is in it...

Personally asking... Are you in serious doubt of God and His book... Are you someone who has already left the Deen of God and free from all these?

Jafar

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 3961
  • Karma +36/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2019, 09:25:50 PM »
3rd paragraph... How do you say this with apt knowledge that Ibrahim and Isa etc without the support of  book/s...


The form of media during the time of Abe, was a cuneiform on a clay tablet.
Much of the material being written are either business transactions, king's decree and propaganda or hymn and ritual to Mesopotamian Gods and Godesses.

A mesopotamian king actually was among the first who invented this concept of "Writings written and from The Gods".
I've described it here: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610198.0

The goal is similar: To obtain control over a populace through FEAR.

Abe seems to get his "revelations" through observation.
He was born within a family of "Idols Inventor", his dad created idols and myths associated to it in exchange for money.
He witnessed through his own physical senses how his dad created idols and myths associated to it.

Basically it will be no brainer to deduce that "my own dad is a fraud, he's fooling people".

Jesus, born within a humble family, dad a solemn carpenter and mom coming from religious elite background (Tribe of Aaroon). Exposed to Torah since he was a child, and he asked difficult questions and debated his own rabbis.
It's not too described how he got the revelations, but it was recorded that he was missing from some years, and appeared already 30 years old and starting his own preaching works.

The preaching content is quite 'alien' to the society.. I can say that Mr Jesus taught Zen Buddhism with mixture of Judaism in his preaching.  But definitely strayed away from the Torah and Talmud. Long story short; his preaching puts him at odds with religious elite of his place and time.

Alas.. the common populace seems to like his preaching, his popularity grows as time progress, this turn Mr Jesus and co from merely a nuissance into a THREAT. A threat to the religious elite to lose control over the populace.

With goal to maintaining control, Jesus and co need to be "dealt with".
In an effort silence him he was punished by death because he violated the Torah's law (Sabbath law).

But... if he was punished by the religious elite, the populace will revolt and control will be lost.
The religious elite devised a clever scheme, Jesus will be punished by the Romans.
Thus even when the populace revolt they will revolt towards the Romans.
Even when this happened, the Romans will lose control over the populace and the religious elite will grow it's power of control over the populace.

Quote
Your second paragraph is well known...  Whatever around us will make us observe and learn and if we are good enough  we would get guided but God willed.. But revelation in spoken form is no more... (through messenger prophet no more)

I don't think so.. revelation never ends...

Quote
Are you someone who has already left the Deen of God and free from all these?

Ancient polytheistic people has many gods.
Each god created their own religion with specific temple, priests as mediator, rituals to be performed lead by the priest, and holy artifacts (scrolls are among those holy artifacts).

Those gods are competing with each others both for followers and also power.
More often those gods are in war with each others, where each of their followers met on a battlefield and killed the follower of competing gods, to prove that their gods are more powerful and truest gods.

Thus god's power are in correlation to the power of his/her followers.
As thus those who dare to left a religion must be PUNISHED, because they've performed an act of treason against a specific god. If such action left unpunished the gods will be angry and the gods will PUNISH those who remained within the religion.

Those are the background on how this concept of "leaving God's religion" came to be.
It only make sense if one is still using or stuck to the old polytheistic concept.

almarh0m

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma +0/-0
Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2019, 07:02:25 AM »
weren't born into it and looked at the Qur'an without hadith objectively?

For example, I wasn't born into Christianity. What they believe in seems silly to me. When I look at it objectively I would never become a Christian and I do not fear the Christian Hell at all.


Peace

Salam

If you had read al Qur'an 3/83, would you still be asking this question?

Salam

almarh0m
"He who Created me, it is He who Guides me"