Author Topic: hajj / feast / debate  (Read 53690 times)

jkhan

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Re: hajj / feast / debate
« Reply #180 on: April 02, 2018, 11:01:28 PM »
9:101: And among those around you of the bedouins (a'rab) are hypocrites, and [also] from the people of Al Madinah. They have become accustomed to hypocrisy. You, [O Muhammad], do not know them, [but] We know them. We will punish them twice [in this world]; then they will be returned to a great punishment.

33:60 If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease and those who spread rumors in al-Madinah do not cease, We will surely incite you against them; then they will not remain your neighbors therein except for a little.

This verses have a hints of clue Prophet was not lived in Al Madina after migrated.
here the word A'rab is translated as bedoins but for me, the word would give meaning of "affluent party" among arabs

jkhan

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Re: hajj / feast / debate
« Reply #181 on: April 02, 2018, 11:36:47 PM »
to support my claim that Haj is not any more for us, please not the verse 2:197
Hajj is [during] well-known months, so whoever has made Hajj obligatory upon himself therein [by entering the state of i?ram], there is [to be for him] no sexual relations and no disobedience and no disputing during Hajj. And whatever good you do - Allah knows it. And take provisions, but indeed, the best provision is fear of Allah. And fear Me, O you of understanding.

well known months... Audience of the time of revelation of this verse have no question at all to ask, what are well known months.. but unfortunately we are at clueless questions what are these well known months..? and various contradictory responses too.. Remember these audience were not rocket science known people, but just simple people who were listening to these verses and follow them. As they said and promised, "we listen and we obey .." and they were practicing.. When Allah says, well known then  no need of further explanation.. but why we dont know the well know matter.. if we also the audience for it.. no we are not.. look some verses allah says.. Al qaria, do you know what qaria is?, do you know what sijjeen is and similar.. so audience didnt know and we dont too and explained by God Himself. Same way when the were told Masjid Al Haram, they knew what it was, but unfortunately not we, even after through explorations by lots of quran only people without any bias too.. what does it hint.. God does not want to hide a must thing to be done by believers at a bay hidden.

HP_TECH

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Re: hajj / feast / debate
« Reply #182 on: April 03, 2018, 10:25:11 AM »
9:101: And among those around you of the bedouins (a'rab) are hypocrites, and [also] from the people of Al Madinah. They have become accustomed to hypocrisy. You, [O Muhammad], do not know them, [but] We know them. We will punish them twice [in this world]; then they will be returned to a great punishment.

33:60 If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease and those who spread rumors in al-Madinah do not cease, We will surely incite you against them; then they will not remain your neighbors therein except for a little.

This verses have a hints of clue Prophet was not lived in Al Madina after migrated.
here the word A'rab is translated as bedoins but for me, the word would give meaning of "affluent party" among arabs

It is good how you are attempting to piece together history via pan textual context however, do not forget to include all verses pertinent to the topic at hand.


63:1 When come to you the hypocrites, they say, "We testify that you (are) surely (the) Messenger (of) Allah." And Allah knows that you (are) surely His Messenger, and Allah testifies that the hypocrites (are) surely liars.

 ...63:8 They say, "If we RETURN to Al-Madinah, surely, will expel the more honorable from it the more humble." But for Allah (is) the honor and for His Messenger and for the believers, but the hypocrites (do) not know.

Is this not indicative that the believers were planning a return to Madinah? Perhaps a brief sojourn but a return nonetheless.
What do you think?
إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِي

My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

HP_TECH

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Re: hajj / feast / debate
« Reply #183 on: April 03, 2018, 11:59:34 AM »
to support my claim that Haj is not any more for us, please not the verse 2:197
Hajj is [during] well-known months, so whoever has made Hajj obligatory upon himself therein [by entering the state of i?ram], there is [to be for him] no sexual relations and no disobedience and no disputing during Hajj. And whatever good you do - Allah knows it. And take provisions, but indeed, the best provision is fear of Allah. And fear Me, O you of understanding.

well known months... Audience of the time of revelation of this verse have no question at all to ask, what are well known months.. but unfortunately we are at clueless questions what are these well known months..? and various contradictory responses too.. Remember these audience were not rocket science known people, but just simple people who were listening to these verses and follow them. As they said and promised, "we listen and we obey .." and they were practicing.. When Allah says, well known then  no need of further explanation.. but why we dont know the well know matter.. if we also the audience for it.. no we are not.. look some verses allah says.. Al qaria, do you know what qaria is?, do you know what sijjeen is and similar.. so audience didnt know and we dont too and explained by God Himself. Same way when the were told Masjid Al Haram, they knew what it was, but unfortunately not we, even after through explorations by lots of quran only people without any bias too.. what does it hint.. God does not want to hide a must thing to be done by believers at a bay hidden.

That is not a very good argument. I notice that usually to support your claim you bring forward verses from The Book. However, you did not do the same for this claim. You did not do so, because the Quran gives no supportive evidence for this claim. It is in fact, infinitely the opposite of what you say.

3:96-97
Indeed, (the) First House set up for the mankind (is) the one which (is) at Bakkah, blessed and a guidance for the worlds.
In it (are) signs clear, standing place of Ibrahim, and whoever enters it - is safe. And (due) to Allah upon the mankind (is) pilgrimage (of) the House (for one) who is able to [it] (find) a way. And whoever disbelieved then indeed, Allah (is) free from need of the universe.

Do you forbid people from doing that which Allah has made lawful or vice versa? Beware of that.

Certainly pilgrimage is an obligatory rite for whoever can find a way. But to claim that it is no longer required is VERY wrong.
إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِي

My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

jkhan

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Re: hajj / feast / debate
« Reply #184 on: April 04, 2018, 06:51:04 AM »
So dear HP Tech.. Where does QURAN order me to go for haj? When God tell as Ard or earth or humankind is not always all the earth or all human.. Remember  that.. Also when God call O you believe  in Quran always not all.. It's very specific..

HP_TECH

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Re: hajj / feast / debate
« Reply #185 on: April 04, 2018, 07:33:35 AM »
So dear HP Tech.. Where does QURAN order me to go for haj?

Dear jk are you having vision problems? Or is it English you find hard to understand?
I just posted it.


3:96-97
Indeed, (the) First House set up for the mankind (is) the one which (is) at Bakkah, blessed and a guidance for the worlds.
In it (are) signs clear, standing place of Ibrahim, and whoever enters it - is safe. And (due) to Allah upon the mankind (is) pilgrimage (of) the House (for one) who is able to [it] (find) a way. And whoever disbelieved then indeed, Allah (is) free from need of the universe.


إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِي

My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

jkhan

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Re: hajj / feast / debate
« Reply #186 on: April 04, 2018, 07:46:10 AM »
Dear HP Tech..
Relevant to 63:1 and 63:8..
These are definitely  the hypocrites of Madina who will return to Madina back n not believers.. But according  to verses of Quran definitely  Madina is a neighborhood town of where prophet lived and in Madina believers also lived and they together have fought against  the enemies.. These verses of wars difintely hint that..

jkhan

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Re: hajj / feast / debate
« Reply #187 on: April 04, 2018, 07:52:31 AM »
Dear  HP May the Creator of me preserve from both of those what you attribute at me. I know you posted it.. Where is the house that I should approach.. I love to as a true believer in God if really God orders me... But I am finding hard to trace the well known place to go for Haj.. Do u copy what I mean.. Remember 17:36 ..is it better to do something half knowing it avoid it..

jkhan

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Re: hajj / feast / debate
« Reply #188 on: April 04, 2018, 08:05:49 AM »
Yes Manny E,
Definitely  a building cannot b a beacon..  But the purpose it was established  can b beecon.. Since people flocked to it and the messages of God kept conveyed throught prophets.. And it was a must I believe  for yester generation since they have to witness the messages by their own prophet coz prophets were living.. All cannot meet Prophets unless it is an event like this..  Dont u like to go haj if your prophet around if u were living in that era every year and witness it n come n help poor with our money and sacrifice animal which would feed them during this great event to make more vibrant.. For me yes.. I would have

But now for what.. To c whom and to get what beacon..beacon is within our fingers..