Author Topic: The Quranic KABA is an ankle/joint, not a pagan temple  (Read 6550 times)

Arman

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Re: The Quranic KABA is an ankle/joint, not a pagan temple
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2015, 07:20:04 PM »
May i ask if you completed reading the article? if so how many times did you read it?

Salam Wakas.

How many times am I supposed to read the article to get what it says? I can tell you that I have given my sincere effort to understand your article - but it is possible that it was not enough.

I do not want to pick a debate with you here. I was curious about your view and your current article seemed too obscure to me - so I asked if a simpler summary is available or can be made available. (Are you suggesting Hajj can be conducted at any place? Is it mandatory? Can any conference on discussing God suffice as Hajj? Does the existing "Hujj" ritual at KSA suffice your definition of Hujj?- questions like this keep poping up in mind but I do not get any clear answer.) If you do not have time for any further clarification or you believe the existing article is the best you can offer - fair enough. Too bad for me that I didn't get it.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman
Indeed I have faced my face to the One who farmed the heavens and the earth in precision; and I do not happen to be among the ones associating partners (with Him).

uq

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Re: The Quranic KABA is an ankle/joint, not a pagan temple
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2015, 08:35:14 PM »
Peace all,

It seems to me that there are two issues at hand here.

The first is knowledge, the second decorum.

The first issue relates to a fundamental misapprehension of the understanding of the Arabic text of the Quran, and to the whimsical fancies to which one's self betakes for its own satisfaction. A blatant disregard for reason and for evidence is profoundly indecorous of rational creatures. I would go so far, in this case, as to allege a forgery of significations; waman 'aẓlamu mimmani -ftarā 'ala -llāhi kadhibā?!

The second issue relates to a readiness in the use of sensitive appellations and their ineffectualness in furthering the objective pursuit of truth. One's labelling someone a mushrik or a kāfir would depend entirely on one's definition of shirk and of kufr. And if one has not been so liberal as to provide a definition of shirk or of kufr, then to what extent is one's appellation tenable in the first instance?!

If neither knowledge nor decorum are acknowledged as fundamental behavioural operators in the objective pursuit of truth, then two implications arise. The first is that debate cannot continue if assertions are readily imposed as objective truths with no care for reason or for evidence. The second is that it will be incumbent upon the protagonist, in my view, to desist for his own sake; perchance he alienates those to whom he so eagerly appeals, on account of his unrefined language and his unseemly disposition.
uq

Wakas

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Re: The Quranic KABA is an ankle/joint, not a pagan temple
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2015, 11:17:47 PM »
w/salaam Arman,

The reason I asked the question was that a summary is given at the end of my articles. A reader can simply read the summary if they wish.

The questions you asked are all discussed in the articles, sometimes explicitly:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html

However, I will answer in brief:

(Are you suggesting Hajj can be conducted at any place?
Any place that fulfils the criteria as laid out in Quran, see summary.


Is it mandatory?
If such an event exists in the present day then perhaps yes.


Can any conference on discussing God suffice as Hajj?
No, only if it fulfils the criteria as laid out in Quran, e.g. is there a mechanism at this conference/commemoration/symposium for feeding the poor/needy etc.


Does the existing "Hujj" ritual at KSA suffice your definition of Hujj?
No, unless one avoided the non-Quranic aspects AND had no issue with the cuboid called Kaabah, i.e. one does not view it as a pagan symbol or idolatry. If this is the case, then in terms of practicality, one could avoid Traditional hajj time in KSA and simply go there any time, e.g. "umrah" time and undertake their commemoration as per Quran.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Arman

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Re: The Quranic KABA is an ankle/joint, not a pagan temple
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2015, 11:28:22 PM »
Thanks Wakas. these short answers make your conclusion much more clearer to me now. I have no further questions for you.

May Allah guide us both to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman
Indeed I have faced my face to the One who farmed the heavens and the earth in precision; and I do not happen to be among the ones associating partners (with Him).

quincy

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Re: The Quranic KABA is an ankle/joint, not a pagan temple
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2019, 03:05:41 AM »
سلام

Sorry to excavate that thread again but there are some things that are not clear for me. I'm of a certainty that a sacred temple is needed as a proxy for GOD and the worshipers - any faith had a central House which was sanctified and kept clean so that the energy of purity could be felt in its presence and this is the most certain place where one could experience GOD or the Angels (like Maryam or Zakariyya did). This was the whole idea of Solomons Temple and the Masjid al-Haram+Kaaba (today the meaning of a holy place is completely distorted by the capitalist/satanic saudi government). But concerning the leg-joint, it does make sense IF you can truly measure the age of the game by it. I didn't find any information to proof that you can measure the age of an animal while observing the leg-joint. First time i heard about the leg-joint was while i read through Sam Gerrans' translation which i find meanwhile very inaccurate and subjective. It is also very fuzzy if you read further in his translation of the Qur'an. Did anyone made some independent research and found something concerning this? Anyone here who hunts and knows that to be true?

Now i know for a fact that the original Haram was located somehere else. But so did Solomons Temple. The accumulation of pure energy and the intention to sanctify certain locations is what makes a place holy and not when you turn it into a cash cow. Thats why it was so important for Muhammad to get rid of all those Idols in Haram - as this building also represents the Haram of the Soul. But this is only my understanding of the whole al-Masjid al-Haram topic.

الله اعلم
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