Author Topic: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation  (Read 1516 times)

Houriya

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Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« on: November 03, 2019, 04:43:40 AM »
Bonjour,

Hier j'ai passé en revue les articles de Wakas sur l'analyse du sen de la salat, sujud, hajj.., excellentes analyses à la lumière du coran, merci pour votre travail.

15 ans après mon premier passage dans ce forum en 2004, voici l'évolution de ma compréhension de la salat. Comme l'a dit Wakas, la salat est un moment qui peut être dédié à la lecture du coran, l'étudier, le rappel de Dieu et de ses commandements pour les suivre de près au quotidien.
La salat est un moyen, la finalité est d'établir la connexion avec Allah dans son cœur. Pour établir cette connexion, il est primordial d'être dans un état méditatif, être en contact avec son corps physique qui est la principale porte d'accès au divin en nous, observer le silence en soi est un excellent moyen pour établir le contact avec le divin.

Quand ce contact est établi, selon mon expérience, on s'éveille à notre véritable nature, on accède à un paradis terrestre dans son cœur qui est pure amour, joie et paie et qui ne dépend d'aucune circonstance extérieure.

C'est le début de l'éveil, il n'est pas définitif, on passe par différentes étapes qui sont très pénibles à vivre avant d'atteindre l'éveil définitif. Certains appellent l'étape intermédiaire, la lessive ou la nuit noire de l'âme, une période qui peut durer plus ou moins longtemps et qui aboutit à l’effondrement de l'égo dont le siège est dans le mental. Cet effondrement  est vécu comme un enfer dans sa chaire. On est obligé de le traverser pour atteindre le paradis dont le siège est dans le cœur. Etape nécessaire à la purification du cœur.
Aucune thérapie ni médicaments ne peut soulager cet état d’enfer émotionnel où les sens sont anesthésiés. La fin de l'enfer ne dépend d'aucune volonté personnelle, il cesse uniquement par la miséricorde et la grâce divine.

Je vous cite quelques versets du coran pour illustrer mes propos.

Sourate 2 Al Baqara - La vache verset 214
Pensez-vous entrer au Paradis alors que vous n'avez pas encore subi des épreuves semblables à celles que subirent ceux qui vécurent avant vous ? Misère et maladie les avaient touchés; et ils furent secoués jusqu'à ce que le Messager, et avec lui, ceux qui avaient cru, se fussent écriés : "Quand viendra le secours d'Allah ? " - Quoi ! Le secours d'Allah est sûrement proche.
 
Sourate 19 : MARYAM (MARIE)
71. Il n'y a personne parmi vous qui ne passera pas par [L'Enfer] : Car [il s'agit là] pour ton Seigneur d'une sentence irrévocable.

Salam

quincy

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2019, 04:46:22 AM »
Peace brother,

this is an English forum as far as i know. My base language is German but i still write in English here as well.
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Houriya

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2019, 05:29:44 AM »
Salam,
Je ne parle pas anglais et j'utilise le traducteur  pour vous lire.

Merci pour votre compréhension.

jkhan

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2019, 06:29:49 AM »
Peace brother,

this is an English forum as far as i know. My base language is German but i still write in English here as well.

Dear Quincy...
I think you better call her Sister... Lol...
Btw don't restrict the one who comes in search of guidance... Anyone who knows French would probably have a conversation with her... Or else if anyone has extra time can always translate and cooperate with her... I don't think it is English  forum with conditions... I don't know though still I didnt read the rules of forum...
Peace...

quincy

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2019, 06:40:28 AM »
Peace, jkhan!

oh, i overlooked her gender  ;D I just wondered because the website is only in english or arabic and i dont restrict her of anything brother, what makes you think that? The web is wide btw, guidance can be found anywhere.
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jkhan

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2019, 06:57:02 AM »
Peace, jkhan!

oh, i overlooked her gender  ;D I just wondered because the website is only in english or arabic and i dont restrict her of anything brother, what makes you think that? The web is wide btw, guidance can be found anywhere.

Just your reply no. 01 propelled me to say that.... It's English forum means.. Indirectly you may be telling her to write either English or leave...though you didn't say so...  Lol 😂... No grudges okay dude...
I feel sad when I heard about your leg... May Allah make your life easier..

Houriya

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2019, 07:07:22 AM »
Salam,
 Pas de soucis, j'ai modifié mon profil après  le 1e message de quincy.

Faites comme moi, utilisez le traducteur de site pour comprendre le contenu de mes messages. Pas besoin de faire appel à une tierce personne pour traduire.

C'est une des raisons qui m'a poussée à quitter le forum, on a m'a demandée d'écrire en anglais. Ça ne m'a pas empêchée d'écrire plus de 1487 messages sous le pseudo de marie.

Voici le lien page 4 :
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.30

good logic

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2019, 10:13:09 AM »
Bienvenu copine Houriya.
C est vrais le language n est pas le plus important.
Partout dans le monde ,l internet nous permit de traduire toute les langue du monde.

Ce quont dis-  i.e le message - esi le plu important.

Au sujet du "Salat", le debat continue. La question que je pose est:
Common Abraham et les generation apres lui ont fait le Salat?

Je suis d accord avec le point : Le Salat est :. "Contact avec Allah".

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

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Houriya

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2019, 12:08:58 PM »

Thank you for your welcome. In surat alfatiha, we read guide us "sirat mustaqueem", which can be translated vertically way, that which goes from the head (mind) to the heart. When one is connected to one's heart, life becomes fluid and flows easily. We are naturally guided towards the right decisions. we become free internally.

good logic

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2019, 02:41:30 PM »
Peace Houriya.
Thank you for your reply.

Yes indeed, "Sirat Al Mustaqueem" is a priority in the deen, In my view The Salat  is also important  but related to "Iyyaka Nastaeen".:
- Wa Istaeenu Bi Al Sabri Wa Al Salat...

I find Qoran giving more importance to "Sirat Al Mustaqueem" and defines it clearly in the following:
1-Ihdina Al Sirat Al Mustaqueem….What is this sirat Al Mustaqueem?
2- Wa Ma Khalktu Al Jinn Wa Insa Illa Li Yabuduni… Then , Wa An Ibuduni ,Hada Siratun Mustaquuem. So Sirat Al MUstaqueem is the Ibada of Allah i.e Following /mirroring the good attributes of Allah like Justice ,forgiveness, loving, humble, helpful...etc to be a straight /good morals and good conduct human being.(Following GOD s instructions/commands...)
3- Now the definition of the Sirat Al mustaqueem comes in the following verses:

Say, "Come let me tell you what your Lord has really prohibited for you: You shall not set up idols besides Him. You shall honor your parents. You shall not kill your children from fear of poverty - we provide for you and for them. You shall not commit gross sins, obvious or hidden. You shall not kill - God has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."
قُل تَعالَوا أَتلُ ما حَرَّمَ رَبُّكُم عَلَيكُم أَلّا تُشرِكوا بِهِ شَيـًٔا وَبِالوٰلِدَينِ إِحسٰنًا وَلا تَقتُلوا أَولٰدَكُم مِن إِملٰقٍ نَحنُ نَرزُقُكُم وَإِيّاهُم وَلا تَقرَبُوا الفَوٰحِشَ ما ظَهَرَ مِنها وَما بَطَنَ وَلا تَقتُلُوا النَّفسَ الَّتى حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلّا بِالحَقِّ ذٰلِكُم وَصّىٰكُم بِهِ لَعَلَّكُم تَعقِلونَ
6:152
You shall not touch the orphans' money except in the most righteous manner, until they reach maturity. You shall give full weight and full measure when you trade, equitably. We do not burden any soul beyond its means. You shall be absolutely just when you bear witness, even against your relatives. You shall fulfill your covenant with God. These are His commandments to you, that you may take heed.
وَلا تَقرَبوا مالَ اليَتيمِ إِلّا بِالَّتى هِىَ أَحسَنُ حَتّىٰ يَبلُغَ أَشُدَّهُ وَأَوفُوا الكَيلَ وَالميزانَ بِالقِسطِ لا نُكَلِّفُ نَفسًا إِلّا وُسعَها وَإِذا قُلتُم فَاعدِلوا وَلَو كانَ ذا قُربىٰ وَبِعَهدِ اللَّهِ أَوفوا ذٰلِكُم وَصّىٰكُم بِهِ لَعَلَّكُم تَذَكَّرونَ
6:153
This is My path - a straight one. You shall follow it, and do not follow any other paths, lest they divert you from His path. These are His commandments to you, that you may be saved.
وَأَنَّ هٰذا صِرٰطى مُستَقيمًا فَاتَّبِعوهُ وَلا تَتَّبِعُوا السُّبُلَ فَتَفَرَّقَ بِكُم عَن سَبيلِهِ ذٰلِكُم وَصّىٰكُم بِهِ لَعَلَّكُم تَتَّقونَ

While the Salat is more food for the soul ,Sirat Al Mustaqueem is the basic requirement to be saved .
Basically to be a good human that follows GOD s commandments as per the above verses.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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quincy

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2019, 01:20:12 AM »
Quote
I feel sad when I heard about your leg... May Allah make your life easier..

Thank you brother! But i already go used to it since i got it since childhood and with todays technology its not so bad, only inconvenient from time to time  ;D

@Houriya: Welcome to the Forum!
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jkhan

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2019, 02:12:47 AM »
Thank you brother! But i already go used to it since i got it since childhood and with todays technology its not so bad, only inconvenient from time to time  ;D


I am really proud of your pleasant and brave approach to life...
God bless you to rest of your life here and the hereafter specially....
take care

Houriya

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2019, 06:10:05 AM »



[quote author=good logic link=topic=9610828.msg427254#msg427254 date=1572801189

Au sujet du "Salat", le debat continue. La question que je pose est:
Common Abraham et les generation apres lui ont fait le Salat?
[/quote]

 Peace,

God has preserved the book and not the practice of people. the prophet will testify against those who have forsaken alquran. It is a clear book whose verses are detailed.

God bless

good logic

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2019, 07:11:47 AM »
Peace Houriya.
Indeed ,I agree GOD preserves His words, here are the verses about losing The Salat::
19:58
These are some of the prophets whom God blessed. They were chosen from among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall prostrate, weeping.
أُولٰئِكَ الَّذينَ أَنعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِم مِنَ النَّبِيّـۧنَ مِن ذُرِّيَّةِ ءادَمَ وَمِمَّن حَمَلنا مَعَ نوحٍ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّةِ إِبرٰهيمَ وَإِسرٰءيلَ وَمِمَّن هَدَينا وَاجتَبَينا إِذا تُتلىٰ عَلَيهِم ءايٰتُ الرَّحمٰنِ خَرّوا سُجَّدًا وَبُكِيًّا

19:59
After them, He substituted generations who lost the Salat, and pursued their lusts. They will suffer the consequences.
فَخَلَفَ مِن بَعدِهِم خَلفٌ أَضاعُوا الصَّلوٰةَ وَاتَّبَعُوا الشَّهَوٰتِ فَسَوفَ يَلقَونَ غَيًّا

Surely this is telling us that GOD preserves through His words and through the chosen people of the generations .
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Houriya

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2019, 08:24:42 AM »
Peace,

Thank you very much four good contribution.

God bless you

jkhan

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2019, 04:54:47 PM »
Peace Houriya.
Indeed ,I agree GOD preserves His words, here are the verses about losing The Salat::
19:58
These are some of the prophets whom God blessed. They were chosen from among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall prostrate, weeping.
أُولٰئِكَ الَّذينَ أَنعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِم مِنَ النَّبِيّـۧنَ مِن ذُرِّيَّةِ ءادَمَ وَمِمَّن حَمَلنا مَعَ نوحٍ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّةِ إِبرٰهيمَ وَإِسرٰءيلَ وَمِمَّن هَدَينا وَاجتَبَينا إِذا تُتلىٰ عَلَيهِم ءايٰتُ الرَّحمٰنِ خَرّوا سُجَّدًا وَبُكِيًّا

19:59
After them, He substituted generations who lost the Salat, and pursued their lusts. They will suffer the consequences.
فَخَلَفَ مِن بَعدِهِم خَلفٌ أَضاعُوا الصَّلوٰةَ وَاتَّبَعُوا الشَّهَوٰتِ فَسَوفَ يَلقَونَ غَيًّا

Surely this is telling us that GOD preserves through His words and through the chosen people of the generations .
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace GL....

I wonder when it says they lost their Salat and follow lusts... Does it mean they still do Salat?..
If you take Salat as prayer in this verse or as Morals does it mean those in previous verse followed Salat while we see those nations destroyed except few....

My main concern is is this current generation lost probably according to this verse.. Even if we take Salat as prayer or moral? 

good logic

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2019, 06:30:48 AM »
Peace jkhan.
Itsays "The Salat", this is the same Salat that was taught to Abraham who asked for it as a "help from his Lord"- Rabi Ijalni Muqueem The Salat and my offspring-
I see it as a connection with GOD -contact prayer- to feed the soul. Since morals are part of the instinct of all humans.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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Wakas

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2019, 06:54:27 AM »
peace all,

Please note member goodlogic often claims salat was taught to Abraham (and passed down to us) but when questioned about it has very little to no Quranic evidence to back this up.

e.g. past discussions:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10279.msg410420#msg410420
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606088.msg347663#msg347663







All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2019, 08:38:02 AM »
Peace All.
And here was my reply:

Peace Wakas.
I have provided you with verses on this topic numerous times in the past( 14:40,21:73,16:123, 8:35,20:14, and many other verses) . Please look for them through the search button.
 Also I do not see your logic in asking me to provide evidence for "my take" on topics, when I say it is my view and provided verses that you may not agree with. You can take it or leave it.
But I am always .willing to provide verses as per my understanding from Qoran.

Also this:
Like I said to Wakas, it is my view and one has to study Qoran and get their understanding from its verses.
I do my "salat" at home at this moment. I do not go to a mosque as I do not agree with the traditional take on the deen. In my opinion it is not dedicated to GOD Alone and some of what they do contradicts instructions of Qoran.
I see my relationship with GOD Alone as personal . I try my best (Ma Istataatum) to follow a peaceful life with all the denominations as instructed by Qoran.

Then this other reply:
Peace Wakas.

Thank you for your post.

Here are the verses you requested:

[16:120-123], [14:25-30] [ 21:73]...

Muhammad: A Follower of Abraham*

16:123
Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham,* the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.
ثُمَّ أَوحَينا إِلَيكَ أَنِ اتَّبِع مِلَّةَ إِبرٰهيمَ حَنيفًا وَما كانَ مِنَ المُشرِكينَ

[Quran 21:73] We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Salat and the Zakat....

Were these not verses from Qoran?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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jkhan

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2019, 08:38:59 AM »
peace all,

Please note member goodlogic often claims salat was taught to Abraham (and passed down to us) but when questioned about it has very little to no Quranic evidence to back this up.

e.g. past discussions:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10279.msg410420#msg410420
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606088.msg347663#msg347663

I don't think there is anything specific to teach in Salat when it is meant prayer...
But I don't agree teaching to Ibrahim coz in the verse it is started with Nuh... So.. The same Salat was lost from Nuh.... If it actually taught to Ibrahim what then Nuh and many generations between nuh and Ibrahim practiced as Salat.... Anyhow that's a different point..
But no one answered my concern.... Is this generation lost its Salat (be it prayer or ethics or whatever closely going as mesnkng) and follows our own desire.     Sunni and sia perform Salat... So something is around... Since we don't accept Sunni and shia to be following the right guidance as they follow all hadiths....so Salat what they do can also  be off line .... But can't be called lost.. Can be? Unless Salat here is not prayer... Why lost and used the word then  'they follow' .... Then Desire or lust.... If they are wrong then only those who follow as guidance quran is minute population... So.. Is this generation lost ? Or is this generation lost all good ethics and follow own desire which is immoral.... Like all generations only minute believe in God.... But the verse in fact talked about  a generation before Quran which should totally lost... No one believer performing moral or Salat  . .isn't it? Coz nuh to Ibrahim had people in them who lost Salat....

good logic

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2019, 08:58:12 AM »
Can I put this correction for my last post:
Verses :
It should have been {14:35-40}{ and not {14:25-30.}
GOD bless.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Houriya

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2019, 11:05:59 AM »
Peace all

God teaches us how to make salat through the verses of the Qur'an. If I have to keep two commandments of the Qur'an, it will be salat and zakat and the two comandements are closely related. Salat includes all divine commands. Salat is a means, the finality is the daily practice of the commandments.

Surah 29

45. Recite what is revealed to you from the Book and perform the Salat. In truth, salat preserves turpitude and blame. The reminder of Allah is certainly the greatest. And Allah knows what you are doing.

Surah 108
2. Fulfill Salat for your Lord and sacrifice.

God bless

Wakas

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2019, 12:05:35 PM »
peace goodlogic,

As I said: you present little to no Quranic evidence, e.g. your translation of 21:73 is inaccurate and I'm confident you know that yet you still peddle it. That's why I highlight past discussion about this claim of yours so forum readers can take it under consideration.



All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2019, 01:50:23 PM »
Peace Wakas.
Let us have your accurate translation of 21:73?
Then define what the word "Millat Abraham"is" is for us and proceed to explain what is it that entails .
In other words explain these verses as well:
2:127
As Abraham raised the foundations of the beyt, together with Ismail (they prayed): "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient.
وَإِذ يَرفَعُ إِبرٰهـۧمُ القَواعِدَ مِنَ البَيتِ وَإِسمٰعيلُ رَبَّنا تَقَبَّل مِنّا إِنَّكَ أَنتَ السَّميعُ العَليمُ
2:128
"Our Lord, make us submitters to You, and from our descendants let there be a community of submitters to You. Teach us the rites of our Manasik, and redeem us. You are the Redeemer, Most Merciful.
رَبَّنا وَاجعَلنا مُسلِمَينِ لَكَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِنا أُمَّةً مُسلِمَةً لَكَ وَأَرِنا مَناسِكَنا وَتُب عَلَينا إِنَّكَ أَنتَ التَّوّابُ الرَّحيمُ

2:129
"Our Lord, and raise among them a messenger to recite to them Your revelations, teach them the scripture and wisdom, and purify them. You are the Almighty, Most Wise."
رَبَّنا وَابعَث فيهِم رَسولًا مِنهُم يَتلوا عَلَيهِم ءايٰتِكَ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الكِتٰبَ وَالحِكمَةَ وَيُزَكّيهِم إِنَّكَ أَنتَ العَزيزُ الحَكيمُ
2:130
Who would forsake the Millat of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.
وَمَن يَرغَبُ عَن مِلَّةِ إِبرٰهـۧمَ إِلّا مَن سَفِهَ نَفسَهُ وَلَقَدِ اصطَفَينٰهُ فِى الدُّنيا وَإِنَّهُ فِى الـٔاخِرَةِ لَمِنَ الصّٰلِحينَ

And:
4:125
Who is better guided in his Deen than one who submits totally to God, leads a righteous life, and follows the Millat of Abraham? God has chosen Abraham as a beloved friend.
وَمَن أَحسَنُ دينًا مِمَّن أَسلَمَ وَجهَهُ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحسِنٌ وَاتَّبَعَ مِلَّةَ إِبرٰهيمَ حَنيفًا وَاتَّخَذَ اللَّهُ إِبرٰهيمَ خَلي

16:123
Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the Millat of Abraham,* the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.
ثُمَّ أَوحَينا إِلَيكَ أَنِ اتَّبِع مِلَّةَ إِبرٰهيمَ حَنيفًا وَما كانَ مِنَ المُشرِكينَ

22:78
You shall strive for the cause of God as you should strive for His cause. He has chosen you and has placed no hardship on you in practicing your Deen - the Millat of your father Abraham. He is the one who named you "Submitters" originally. Thus, the messenger shall serve as a witness among you, and you shall serve as witnesses among the people. Therefore, you shall observe the Salat and give the Zakat, and hold fast to God; He is your Lord, the best Lord and the best Supporter.
وَجٰهِدوا فِى اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهادِهِ هُوَ اجتَبىٰكُم وَما جَعَلَ عَلَيكُم فِى الدّينِ مِن حَرَجٍ مِلَّةَ أَبيكُم إِبرٰهيمَ هُوَ سَمّىٰكُمُ المُسلِمينَ مِن قَبلُ وَفى هٰذا لِيَكونَ الرَّسولُ شَهيدًا عَلَيكُم وَتَكونوا شُهَداءَ عَلَى النّاسِ فَأَقيمُوا الصَّلوٰةَ وَءاتُوا الزَّكوٰةَ وَاعتَصِموا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَولىٰكُم فَنِعمَ المَولىٰ وَنِعمَ النَّصيرُ

By the way brother this Salat that GOD mentions "The Salat" . is explained  perfectly here, quote:

God has defined contacting Him by the word Al-Salah or الصَّلَوةُ , translated as "the Contact Prayer". This word means "direct contact or getting in direct touch with" in Arabic language. When God refers to contacting Him, He always uses this word defined by one of the most powerful grammatical tools of definition, Al or ال or the. Besides the distinction it makes between the rite and command of contacting God and the casual praying or imploring one could do any time, any where, and in any manner, this defining tool, the/ال, assures us that the Contact Prayer/ Al-Salah/ الصَّلَوةُ is an already existing, well-known  practice or rite that is much older than Quran and Muhammad and is part of "Millat Abraham" .

Your confidence of my knowledge is an assumption. I am the one who is confident in what I understand so far brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

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Houriya

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2019, 10:05:36 AM »
Péage,

How To do salat from the Quran.

http://www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-part3.pdf?

God bless

good logic

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2019, 10:59:55 AM »
Peace All.
The subject of "The Salat has been discussed many times in this forum. Those who disagree with it as a "contact prayer" have different explanations for it as commitment or morals or various different explanations that are inconsistent.
, This specific thing that we seek as a help from GOD- Qoran calls it Al Salat-  ,something that should be identified as clear and consistent .,practiced since Abraham according to Qoran by many of the generations since Abraham:
Summarised well in 22:78:
وَجٰهِدوا فِى اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهادِهِ هُوَ اجتَبىٰكُم وَما جَعَلَ عَلَيكُم فِى الدّينِ مِن حَرَجٍ مِلَّةَ أَبيكُم إِبرٰهيمَ هُوَ سَمّىٰكُمُ المُسلِمينَ مِن قَبلُ وَفى هٰذا لِيَكونَ الرَّسولُ شَهيدًا عَلَيكُم وَتَكونوا شُهَداءَ عَلَى النّاسِ فَأَقيمُوا
الصَّلوٰةَ وَءاتُوا الزَّكوٰةَ وَاعتَصِموا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَولىٰكُم فَنِعمَ المَولىٰ وَنِعمَ النَّصيرُ
 Aquimu Al Salat-The salat", all of you followers of Millat Abraham.

When one finds out what it is, here is what should be done with it:
1-
20:14
"I am God; there is no other god beside Me. You shall "Ubudni" Me alone, and observe the Salat to remember Me.
إِنَّنى أَنَا اللَّهُ لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا أَنا۠ فَاعبُدنى وَأَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ لِذِكرى
2-
20:132
You shall enjoin your Ahlaka- next of kin/family... to the Salat, and steadfastly persevere in doing so. We do not ask you for any provisions; we are the ones who provide for you. The ultimate triumph belongs to the righteous.
وَأمُر أَهلَكَ بِالصَّلوٰةِ وَاصطَبِر عَلَيها لا نَسـَٔلُكَ رِزقًا نَحنُ نَرزُقُكَ وَالعٰقِبَةُ لِلتَّقوىٰ

Remember that GOD is in no need of anything from us. This ,The Salat ,is a gift from GOD to nourish our souls.
I recognise it as the one with Ruku and sujud and remembering GOD i.e getting in touch with GOD .

 For me it must be the contact prayer that is well known by the whole world when they see someone doing it, be it Muslims or Jews...This is the only consistent understanding of The salat by the whole world and clear at that.

Does GOD require us to make money contribution to Him for doing it? Does it cost anything? Is it that bad that people oppose it? Does it not represent the best meditation if done sincerely? Does it harm anyone?
Surely ,from my experience, it helps both body and spirit. Try it?

Also for me it fits with both verses above ,it also explains if it is taught through families it keeps being preserved. And it makes sense that it stops the person committing sins and reflect on their conduct and well being spiritually..

Finally ,those who claim it means something else ,have not connected all the verses and came up with a consistent way for it.
Obviously each to their understanding,
I will leave you to ponder this:
"Araaita Alladi Yanha Abdan Idha Salla*
May the Lord guide us to the best understanding.
GOD bless you All.
Peace
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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Wakas

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2019, 12:05:35 PM »
Unfortunately member good logic digs himself deeper into his hole by now misrepresenting more verses, e.g. 22:78 and 20:132, and makes claims such as "Finally ,those who claim it means something else ,have not connected all the verses and came up with a consistent way for it."

Implying he has (which he hasn't), yet admits words like "zakat" mean different things [source]. So salat has to be consistent but zakat doesn't? Only God knows the logic of good logic.

For those opposed to his view his misrepresentations and inconsistent approach is evidence that he may be wrong. It's a classic tell tale sign.

For those wondering why I'm being stern with member good logic, it's simple, I do not like it when it is pointed out to people that what they said has inconsistencies/assumptions/flaws (and even admit it) yet they continue to peddle it repeatedly as if nothing happened.

When it comes to salat I have found member good logic to lack credibility. It is unfortunate I have to say this about a long term forum member but I'm simply sharing my view. I have nothing against him as a person. Feel free to disagree.



All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

good logic

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2019, 03:12:11 PM »
Peace Wakas.
Let me quote you first:
Implying he has (which he hasn't), yet admits words like "zakat" mean different things [source]. So salat has to be consistent but zakat doesn't? Only God knows the logic of good logic.

It is unlike you not to read posts properly.
Please read my posts again ,I was not talking about the word Salat without the "Al" ,I was specifically talking about The Salat -Al Salat_ that Qoran mentions in many verses. This specific and particular Salat is consistently the same .
You are slipping up brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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jkhan

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2019, 06:04:44 PM »

It is unlike you not to read posts properly.
Please read my posts again ,I was not talking about the word Salat without the "Al" ,I was specifically talking about The Salat -Al Salat_ that Qoran mentions in many verses. This specific and particular Salat is consistently the same .
You are slipping up brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Brother GL.peace.....

You definitely know brother waqas or myself or almost  most of the members here don't oppose Salat as prayer as well... Be it As Salat or merely Salat... Definitely there is salat which should be done verbally to applaud the Creator at certain times of a day... That cannot be discarded... But your claim of AL Salat only prayer very awkward... You can't say that unless you prove each verse in which As Salat appears... That's beyond probability.... Now it seems only As Salat is prayer for you.... Not the word without AL... That's pretty creepy.... Then tell me in chapter 23:1-10, two times salat is stated without AL joined, what do those two salat mean? Remember these 10 verses is criteria to be those successful to enter Janna...
Pray dude... No issues... But don't claim As Salat always prayer.... 
As stated in many of my previous posts Aqeem As Salat WAathuzakath never can be prayer + giving... I am 100% ... I  am convinced in that... Bring any verse of such... I will explain what it means... I can't help if you remain in your understanding...  But at least find in fact what God meant by them... By exploring neutrally all such verses....
I am not here to change your opinion  or convince you... But hope you again explore...

good logic

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2019, 12:55:26 AM »
Peace jkhan.
I am only referring to verses with "Aquimi/Aquimu...The Salat" Or "The Salat"-i.e Salat is preceded with "Al".
Not all other forms from the verb "Salla"./Yussallun/Salatuhum...etc They can mean different things according to the context.

 You may not agree that  all Aquimi The Salat or the Salat verses  are a "contact prayer" from Qoran.
 I am saying according to my understanding they are. 
The consistency of the steps do not vary from generation to the next. generation.( Standing, bowing prostrating)

The corruption of " The salat "like including other than GOD in it, not devoting it to GOD Alone, changing the numbers, adding/taking away...etc have been cleared up by Qoran. 
Did Mohammed do "Iquami the Salat" Why and how? Is there evidence he did? Was he instructed to "Aquimi The Salat"? How did he know what it was?

There are other things that have not got  step by step instructions in Qoran. You can see the different interpretations for them here and elsewhere. For example how do you do Zakat ...etc.. But Qoran explained how they came about and how they were preserved- Wa Wassa Biha Abraham Baneeh- Abraham instructed his offspring...and so on.

Qoran needs pondering for the details to be found like you would put together a jigsaw. GOD has chosen His words to be a trial for those that claim they want to follow them.
 If everything came as clear as crystals in Qoran, and no effort was made to find the path, there would be no need for a trial and GOD and the Angels would be present here explaining them.

Well, keep looking for your details. I will keep digging and studying to find mine.

Read the posts about The Salat again, there is not a shred of evidence in them to make me think I better stop observing  The Salat. On the contrary, I see a lot of confusion with your and others explanation  .

Would you agree with me brother that I cannot follow your reasoning on what you or others have provided  so far?
 I will keep on observing my contact prayer dedicating it to GOD Alone.
Thank you for the conversation and GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Wakas

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2019, 01:03:54 AM »
peace GL,

Thanks for clarifying but even if you meant consistency only when its "aqimu" + "al salat" it doesn't tell us much, e.g. what evidence this is based on, what about al zakat, what about other al words, what consistent approach do you apply etc.

And of course the above makes no difference to your misrepresentation of verses.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

jkhan

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2019, 02:47:30 AM »
Peace jkhan.
I am only referring to verses with "Aquimi/Aquimu...The Salat" Or "The Salat"-i.e Salat is preceded with "Al".
Not all other forms from the verb "Salla"./Yussallun/Salatuhum...etc They can mean different things according to the context.

 You may not agree that  all Aquimi The Salat or the Salat verses  are a "contact prayer" from Qoran.
 I am saying according to my understanding they are. 
The consistency of the steps do not vary from generation to the next. generation.( Standing, bowing prostrating)

The corruption of " The salat "like including other than GOD in it, not devoting it to GOD Alone, changing the numbers, adding/taking away...etc have been cleared up by Qoran. 
Did Mohammed do "Iquami the Salat" Why and how? Is there evidence he did? Was he instructed to "Aquimi The Salat"? How did he know what it was?

There are other things that have not got  step by step instructions in Qoran. You can see the different interpretations for them here and elsewhere. For example how do you do Zakat ...etc.. But Qoran explained how they came about and how they were preserved- Wa Wassa Biha Abraham Baneeh- Abraham instructed his offspring...and so on.

Qoran needs pondering for the details to be found like you would put together a jigsaw. GOD has chosen His words to be a trial for those that claim they want to follow them.
 If everything came as clear as crystals in Qoran, and no effort was made to find the path, there would be no need for a trial and GOD and the Angels would be present here explaining them.

Well, keep looking for your details. I will keep digging and studying to find mine.

Read the posts about The Salat again, there is not a shred of evidence in them to make me think I better stop observing  The Salat. On the contrary, I see a lot of confusion with your and others explanation  .

Would you agree with me brother that I cannot follow your reasoning on what you or others have provided  so far?
 I will keep on observing my contact prayer dedicating it to GOD Alone.
Thank you for the conversation and GOD bless you.
Peace.
Peace...
Somehow in verse 23:1-10 and 70:23-34 God used sala and that sala is not As-Salat... So somehow if we depend on you we can go without performing As-Sala to Jenna... Coz As-Salat not mentioned here...
Pls don't twist GL.. I never said Salat or As-Salat not prayer.. Both are meant prayers in Quran certain verses... But obviously Salat has various meaning within Quran.. Undeniable... That's why I say both As-Sala and Zakath joined it cannot be prayer + giving... But in your one example you claim so.. It seems for you all As-sala are save Prayer... And Zakath is charity for you... You failed to ponder in my understanding of you...

Look below verse 2:177
"Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah , the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives zakah; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous"

Just look charity is explained in detail already in this verse.. And again God wants to add Zakath... God doesn't want double tax us.. Zakath is not charity in Quran... And Whereever it joined with As-Salat then it's upholding purification by having Ethics /Morals.. 
If still not clear just look verse 4:77 "Have you not seen those who were told, "Restrain your hands [from fighting] and establish prayer and give zakah"?....... ..."

Just use logic... Restrain your hands and prayer and Zakath.. What connection in it... If restrain hands from fighting then keep morals and brongforth purification...
Why to bring Zakath at all in fighting? Unconditionally without saying rich or poor to give Zakath... That's horrible...
Further why you say that standing ruku and sujud preserved..  So,  you trust them beyond Quran... Did Allah taught you what is ruku and sujud stand for physically... Standing... No need to teach everyone knows how to stand.   

Anyhow.. I know you are a believer and kind person with much patience..  God will judge us with what we do..  Only thing I can wish is May God guide us with what is right...

good logic

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2019, 03:46:33 AM »
Peace jkhan.
I did say this:
Not all other forms from the verb "Salla"./Yussallun/Salatuhum...etc They can mean different things according to the context.

 Of course one of the meaning can also be prayer for these derivatives of Salli, like in the contexts of 23:1-10, 70:23-34 or like" Wa Huwa Yusalli Fi Al Mihrab" or "Wa Ma Kana Salatuhum In Da El Beyt...etc.
Different meanings like support can be in other verses like "Sallu Alaihi Wa Sallimu Taslima"....
Or other meaning like "Kullun Kad Alima Salatahu Wa Tasbihahu".. And so on.

I repeat ,according to my understanding all the other verses where there are "Aquimi/Aquimu...The Salat or just "The Salat" the meaning is the specific "contact prayer".
I hope it is clear to you what I am saying now.

Let me add the following as well. This is very important:
Qoran is clear that the minimum  requirement for redemption is "Sirat Al Mustaqueem". One should get this basic right .
 The rest is a bonus.
 While I give my view I expect each individual to find their own through their search and understanding.

The verses of Qoran in the original Arabic are there for all to ponder.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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jkhan

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Re: Salat - établir le lien avec Allah - méditation
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2019, 04:37:13 AM »

I repeat ,according to my understanding all the other verses where there are "Aquimi/Aquimu...The Salat or just "The Salat" the meaning is the specific "contact prayer".
I hope it is clear to you what I am saying now.



But unfortunately not for me... Aquim As-Salat everywhere in Quran not prayer for me... So we contradict each other..  It means we give different meaning to Quran... But as I always say God meant only one meaning for one verse.   I can't take one and you can't take another.. Then totally neglecting what in fact God explained.... Better be in not knowing situation rather than claiming this is what it means..   
I am sure if we both in the eyes of God then He would expose our misunderstanding...  So be flexible and learn what you learned already again and again... So there could be guidance....
Anyhow that's it with you in this topic...
May God expose the wrong one for the sake of guidance... Be it me or you. .that's good for us in the end...