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Author Topic: The Children of Israel  (Read 2987 times)

TheNabi

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The Children of Israel
« on: December 31, 2002, 05:15:56 AM »
Peace  :)

I was wondering if anyone knows if the Children of Israel are those who believe in God, or the Righteous, or are they some geneological group of people descending from Jacob?

Joe
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objective eye

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The Children of Israel
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2003, 08:50:20 PM »
"Isra-El"
CAN mean
"God's(-el suffix) Struggle(Isra)"
and there are several other variations on that theme like most "-el" names.

This is because according to recorded legends, Jacob struggled in comming to terms with God.

Comming to terms with God is a struggle which can have violent physical and mental side effects due to something called the nocebo effect.

Thus "Childern of Israel" can justifiably refer to those people who like Jacob have successfully come through this struggle, perhaps even those people still going through that struggle.

Interesting to note that the Arabic for "Children of Israel" also means "My-Child Israel".
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AaRoN

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The Children of Israel
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2003, 12:31:57 AM »
peace

Quote
Comming(sic) to terms with God is a struggle which can have violent physical and mental side effects due to something called the nocebo effect.


nocebo. never heard of it until now. so i looked it up. here, at straight dope i found a pretty good explanation.

Quote
Thus "Childern(sic) of Israel" can justifiably refer to those people who like Jacob have successfully come through this struggle, perhaps even those people still going through that struggle.


very interesting indeed. i will find one example to show:

2:40 O children of Israel, remember My blessings that I had blessed you with, and fulfill your pledge to Me that I fulfill My pledge to you, and reverence Me Only.

so by what i gather from your logic, this can not only be read to mean descendants of jacob in particular, but can also mean 'o descendants of those who have previously struggled with the concept of God' or 'o people who are currently struggling with the concept of God'.

so what did i do with this? i went to the Quran translation i am in the process of editing, and i searched for 'children of israel' and then read those passages bearing this in mind. for the most part, it fit in rather well, until i got to some parts that i felt were specifically speaking to the genetic descendants of israel, like this one:

17:4 And We decreed to the Children of Israel in the Book, that you will make corruption twice on earth, and that you will become very high and mighty.

and

17:104 And We said after him to the children of Israel: "Dwell the land, then, when the time of the last promise comes, We will bring you all together as a mixed crowd.

as they seem to be speaking directly to the genetic descendants of israel.

all in all, interesting insights indeed.

on a side note, thanks for saying 'no offense' in your signature. :)
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* the Divine suffices as observer - appreciation is the message of the Divine - and those who are with it are harsh on concealment and nurture between themselves *

objective eye

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The Children of Israel
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2003, 11:14:02 PM »
Thankyou for understanding my intentions Aaron (I also used the word "little").
:)


Your exegesis is very interesting. I had not thought about using it beyond simply baring it in mind, but the three verses youi mentioned this is what I can now see.
2:40 is perhaps encouragement to those who are struggling not to loose faith perhaps by the phrsae "fulfill your pledge".
17:4 would indicate that those people who are struggling will cause corruption, which is certainly what the christians are doing right now. Christians claim to be monotheists, but seem to struggle with comming to terms with God.
17:104 Perhaps the promise refers to the time when the struggle will be over. At that time those people who have made their peace with god from any society will be drawn together into one holy community.

interesting that being a muslim entails making peace with god.

Perhaps the journey of the those under the Israel archetype is one towards making peace with god.
 :D
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nishat

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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2003, 01:19:20 AM »
Mein Lieber Bruder,

are u really into hermeneutics?

I'm amazed by your scriptural knowledge... and I also need to verify the stuff that you posted about the OT and NT compilations etc. any help from ur side will be appreciated.

thanks,
nishat
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noor al zaman

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The Children of Israel
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2003, 08:32:51 PM »
Peace all

Note that there is a big difference
when Allah talk about jews and when he talk to or about (Bani Israel)...

Noor al zaman..
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