Author Topic: Why PLURAL to call God......  (Read 1484 times)

jkhan

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2019, 03:58:45 AM »
Who said that? If you would drown in a lake would you call anyone else beside GOD? Calling to someone is different as to worship someone.

hmm.. that's a point.. but that's different,.... we call for help.... but let's stick with the two verses in which Nuh and Ibrahim  involved with God.... They didn't  ask help from others .... did they?... this 'US' cannot be single... as we see in all 'WE' that is dual .. i.e. God+ .... So... 'US' should be God +..
pls study... before rushing to reply..... remember i am not convinced... i am here to get clarification... pls mind that... so don't rush that can confuse..

jkhan

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2019, 04:32:17 AM »
Remember I meant by word "Call" is typically a Dua.... Not calling someone for help or any other...

Cerberus

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2019, 05:39:15 AM »
It makes sense for God to use We if we understand the possibility that God is not necessarily quantifiable to one being with a persona.
For example, in the Stoic philosophy, often time they speak about the Logos, the phenomena that governs all things with reason or in Hinduism, the ultimate reality that is the Brahman. It's something but we don't know what it is exactly or what its nature is. But we mistakenly always think of God as someone with a name and a character etc, in the example of a person that could be drawn or made statues of. But that's not necessarily true.

What if God is like an organization, the executives and the workforce together. In the abrahamic religions Elohim and his Archangels. Or in other religions you have the supreme God and the minor god. etc.

So one could explore these different possibilities with thoughtfulness knowing none of it can be verifiable. or you could say for some reason God is using "We" to glorify himself and then call it a day.

quincy

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2019, 05:49:24 AM »
Personality is actually against GOD as a personality is attached to certain materialistic things and is formed by experience.
THINK FOR YOURSELF

jkhan

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2019, 08:29:59 AM »
It makes sense for God to use We if we understand the possibility that God is not necessarily quantifiable to one being with a persona.
For example, in the Stoic philosophy, often time they speak about the Logos, the phenomena that governs all things with reason or in Hinduism, the ultimate reality that is the Brahman. It's something but we don't know what it is exactly or what its nature is. But we mistakenly always think of God as someone with a name and a character etc, in the example of a person that could be drawn or made statues of. But that's not necessarily true.

What if God is like an organization, the executives and the workforce together. In the abrahamic religions Elohim and his Archangels. Or in other religions you have the supreme God and the minor god. etc.

So one could explore these different possibilities with thoughtfulness knowing none of it can be verifiable. or you could say for some reason God is using "We" to glorify himself and then call it a day.

Let's not deviate from the topic of possible... Nature of God is a different big subject.... Of course we don't know how God looks.   We will never know till we see Him..
But God Claims He is ONE... God claims He is The God... He claims He is the god of Naas,  .. God claims is one God better or gods? God has names and ordered us to call by His names. .somehow He is ONE not two... He is not ilahain..... Or aaliha, but Wahid...

Cerberus

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2019, 09:30:13 AM »
I actually hit the subject in its core.
ONE WHAT ? One person-like individual ? One environment ? One organization with its constituents ? One whole englobing everything else ?

The thing is, and whether you realize it or not, but most people think of God being one as in a single individual.

quincy

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2019, 10:11:45 AM »
Well the nearest to GOD are the Mala'ikah as he created them from pure light. GOD is an-Nur as well, i can pretty much imagine that they have a direct connection to as-Samad. In some Sufi orders people also call out to Jibril and other Mala'ikah - even to some saints. But does that mean that they are GOD? No, being divine is something else then GOD. GOD never forbid to make contact with Mala'ikah or even Jinn.
THINK FOR YOURSELF

Mazhar

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2019, 01:58:04 PM »
Peace....

Did you guys got me what I wrote…or my explanation is bit awkward to divert to another angle of this topic… …. Yes.. Quincy and Mazhar. Lord is King, Sovereign… and HE is our Majesty….that’s true…but where is the word …. But take the below example pls…
38:41 “And remember Our servant Job, WHEN HE CALLED (nādā) TO HIS LORD, ……. …. ."
So it is not necessary to call even at a time of trouble (“nadanā” – ‘CALLED US’) unless something was distinctive with the way Nuh approached… isn’t it? Approach of Ibrahim in11:74 is crystal clear (Ibrahim-Angel Messengers-God{indirect}) so “ Yujādilunā” ‘Argued with US’ is used. Remember in this ‘US’ God is included …it was not merely an argument between Angels and Ibrahim…Angel Messengers have no reason to argue with human..unless it was an argument of God and Ibrahim.. but they talked what God wanted to talk..it was only the voice of Angel Messengers but it is the words of God that they uttered… don’t you think so..?
Since Prophert Ayyub called directly his Lord no Messengers involved in that call.. SINGULAR. Same we call our Lord in Dua (Ya Allah, Ya Rahman, Ya Rabbi). Had Nuh called directly then, I don’t see any reason for him to call his Lord as God says ‘nadanā’… We normally know how Nuh called his Lord.. for example 11:45 “And Noah CALLED TO HIS LORD and said, "MY LORD, indeed my son is of my family ….." in this there is nothing wrong.. isn’t it?…but 37:75 is different completely.. but somehow ‘Called US’ is used…God didn’t say ‘Called ME’..so MY LORD is not the way Nuh could have used in 37:75..…for me Nuh never called his Lord by words in 37:75…but same as Ibrahim, Nuh would have been discussing with Angel Messengers…never called his Lord. that’s my option… we better view this in a wider possible vistas.. I sense it is something more than Royal or Majesty merely to support ‘US’…but I don’t see the word ‘majesty’ is inserted there..(nada+na is just simply called+us)I feel the involvement of God – Malaika – Man.. simply like a relay in the conversation .. …has anyone perceived it in this way? If it in case Majesty or Royal then explain me how can it can be in the case of Ibrahim in 11:74…Did he call his Majesty while he was only arguing with Angel Messengers on behalf of Lut community… Don’t rush to respond.. it looks very intricate … scrupulously study, you may find probably the difference..

When we call upon Allah, we use singular pronoun. When He the Exalted informs others about someone's call then uses the Plural Pronoun for expressing from Majestic point of view/perspective.

jkhan

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2019, 10:49:23 PM »
When we call upon Allah, we use singular pronoun. When He the Exalted informs others about someone's call then uses the Plural Pronoun for expressing from Majestic point of view/perspective.

would you pls bring me couple of verses other than these two verses for me to study...

jkhan

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2019, 11:24:05 PM »
I actually hit the subject in its core.
ONE WHAT ? One person-like individual ? One environment ? One organization with its constituents ? One whole englobing everything else ?

The thing is, and whether you realize it or not, but most people think of God being one as in a single individual.

Peace Cerberus...

No you are not in line with subject.. you are deviating to one of the Greatest intricate topic....i hope you get me...

75:22-23 [Some] “Faces, that Day, will be radiant, Looking at their Lord.”
10:07 “those who hope not for their meeting with US ….. “ 18:105 “Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him … “
(singular and Plural)

Look at the difference… it shows we will see our Lord (in fact the radiant ones)… the next verse “Meeting with US”… it indicates… we will not only see God but His Messengers… in fact we will meet them on the day of Judgment.. But we meet Him definitely…
So God is ONE and VISIBLE …. Whatever the way He looks is irrelevant to the topic… Pls read my initial thread again if you have patience.... :(