Author Topic: Why PLURAL to call God......  (Read 1036 times)

jkhan

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Why PLURAL to call God......
« on: October 28, 2019, 09:35:12 PM »
Peace everyone....

Normally when we ask a dua or supplication we call only our Lord, Creator of Earth and Heavens and whatever between them….We don’t want to call anyone else and ask our dua… right?...When God used “WE” in verses we can simply deduce that between God and US another is in operation or assisting… That’s Angel Messengers…for example ….”WE destroyed them”  or We delivered the message or WE called Ibrahim…God, Angel messengers involved in doing such things for human…So WE could suit without doubt… that’s my understanding… if any other substantial understanding pls present…

But my question is relevant with below verse… or such similar verses…

37:75-76 “And Noah had certainly called US, (nādānā) and [We are] the best of responders. And WE saved him and his family from the great affliction.”

Above is not the statement of Nuh directly in quran.. but directly from God saying Nuh called US instead of ME (God)… why Nuh need to call in PLURAL instead of SINGULAR….
I tried but not yet in a position to perceive other than this option… only option came to my mind is like… Any Angel Messenger would have come to Prophet Nuh and during that time He would have told / discussed like to inform God (or whatever discussed is also God involved since they were Angel Messengers representing God)…pretty weird to first up.. but does “NADANA” suit otherwise?... another example… same way Ibrahim almost begged to God through guests Messengers…11:74 the word used is ( yujādilunā)-‘he argued with US’…. In fact Ibrahim was talking/arguing to/with the Angel guest Messengers, but God used the word “ARGUED WITH US’…. So what Angel spoke is in fact what God had to / meant to speak… So strange for me and thrilling.. Even simple dialogue of Angel Messengers on a mission to Human Messengers speaks on behalf of God and nothing they speak of themselves to be called by God precisely saying as ARGUED WITH US.. while only Angel Messengers and Human Messenger argued physically..

If not why Nuh called “NADANA”… hope you guys have better grasp of this matter…. Pls share your thoughts….

quincy

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2019, 10:02:04 PM »
Peace jkhan!

As GOD is al-Malik (The Sovereign), the WE should be understood as a royal we.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we
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Mazhar

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2019, 01:06:52 AM »
//Above is not the statement of Nuh directly in quran.. but directly from God saying Nuh called US instead of ME (God)… why Nuh need to call in PLURAL instead of SINGULAR….//

In trouble you call upon some powerful, holder of majesty for help. ''He called upon Our Majesty''. We have the concept of Majestic plural. Nothing unusual.

Bikrun

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2019, 01:26:28 AM »

Salam,

They might not be the same:

14:1 ALR, a Book which We have sent down to you so that you may bring the people out of the darkness and into the light with the permission of their Lord, to the path of the Noble, the Praiseworthy.

19:64 And we are not sent except by the authority of your Lord. To Him are our present and our future, and all that is in-between. And your Lord was never to forget.

God knows best
42:43    And for he who is patient and forgives, then that is an indication of strength

jkhan

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2019, 02:19:49 AM »
//Above is not the statement of Nuh directly in quran.. but directly from God saying Nuh called US instead of ME (God)… why Nuh need to call in PLURAL instead of SINGULAR….//

In trouble you call upon some powerful, holder of majesty for help. ''He called upon Our Majesty''. We have the concept of Majestic plural. Nothing unusual.

Peace....

Did you guys got me what I wrote…or my explanation is bit awkward to divert to another angle of this topic… …. Yes.. Quincy and Mazhar. Lord is King, Sovereign… and HE is our Majesty….that’s true…but where is the word …. But take the below example pls…
38:41 “And remember Our servant Job, WHEN HE CALLED (nādā) TO HIS LORD, ……. …. ."
So it is not necessary to call even at a time of trouble (“nadanā” – ‘CALLED US’) unless something was distinctive with the way Nuh approached… isn’t it? Approach of Ibrahim in11:74 is crystal clear (Ibrahim-Angel Messengers-God{indirect}) so “ Yujādilunā” ‘Argued with US’ is used. Remember in this ‘US’ God is included …it was not merely an argument between Angels and Ibrahim…Angel Messengers have no reason to argue with human..unless it was an argument of God and Ibrahim.. but they talked what God wanted to talk..it was only the voice of Angel Messengers but it is the words of God that they uttered… don’t you think so..?
Since Prophert Ayyub called directly his Lord no Messengers involved in that call.. SINGULAR. Same we call our Lord in Dua (Ya Allah, Ya Rahman, Ya Rabbi). Had Nuh called directly then, I don’t see any reason for him to call his Lord as God says ‘nadanā’… We normally know how Nuh called his Lord.. for example 11:45 “And Noah CALLED TO HIS LORD and said, "MY LORD, indeed my son is of my family ….." in this there is nothing wrong.. isn’t it?…but 37:75 is different completely.. but somehow ‘Called US’ is used…God didn’t say ‘Called ME’..so MY LORD is not the way Nuh could have used in 37:75..…for me Nuh never called his Lord by words in 37:75…but same as Ibrahim, Nuh would have been discussing with Angel Messengers…never called his Lord. that’s my option… we better view this in a wider possible vistas.. I sense it is something more than Royal or Majesty merely to support ‘US’…but I don’t see the word ‘majesty’ is inserted there..(nada+na is just simply called+us)I feel the involvement of God – Malaika – Man.. simply like a relay in the conversation .. …has anyone perceived it in this way? If it in case Majesty or Royal then explain me how can it can be in the case of Ibrahim in 11:74…Did he call his Majesty while he was only arguing with Angel Messengers on behalf of Lut community… Don’t rush to respond.. it looks very intricate … scrupulously study, you may find probably the difference..

jkhan

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2019, 02:25:08 AM »
Salam,

They might not be the same:

14:1 ALR, a Book which We have sent down to you so that you may bring the people out of the darkness and into the light with the permission of their Lord, to the path of the Noble, the Praiseworthy.

19:64 And we are not sent except by the authority of your Lord. To Him are our present and our future, and all that is in-between. And your Lord was never to forget.

God knows best

Peace....
That's right... the WE is used in common in quran that we understand... God + Angel Messengers involved in it.... unless God uses singular .. for example When God called Mosa... it is singular.. saying I am your Lord...not said We are your Lord.... that WE is common.. no issue.. in your example also same... but the concern is 37:75.... Why we need to call God in Plural while address only HIM...and not Messengers (Angel).... is my explanation complicated?

Bikrun

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2019, 02:53:17 AM »
Peace....
That's right... the WE is used in common in quran that we understand... God + Angel Messengers involved in it.... unless God uses singular .. for example When God called Mosa... it is singular.. saying I am your Lord...not said We are your Lord.... that WE is common.. no issue.. in your example also same... but the concern is 37:75.... Why we need to call God in Plural while address only HIM...and not Messengers (Angel).... is my explanation complicated?

Salam,

I have no answer but a simple and plain that Nuh called all forces to help him with his difficult task and all forces with the permission from the singular and one God responded to him.

Hope you can find a more interesting answer...
42:43    And for he who is patient and forgives, then that is an indication of strength

quincy

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2019, 03:33:34 AM »
I don't see any problem there, even if you consider the WE as GOD and the Malaika. He called them, it doesn't mean that he committed shirk of any kind. Malaika are a part of GOD and they only do as GOD wishes. Thats why you have Adonai (my Lords) as another synonym for GOD in the hebrew scriptures.
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jkhan

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2019, 03:42:14 AM »
I don't see any problem there, even if you consider the WE as GOD and the Malaika. He called them, it doesn't mean that he committed shirk of any kind. Malaika are a part of GOD and they only do as GOD wishes. Thats why you have Adonai (my Lords) as another synonym for GOD in the hebrew scriptures.

He doesn't need to call anyone but ONLY God... coz we never call so.. right? and No need to ... Isn't God enough to listen to us?.. ufff... am i complicating the story....I wish i know perfect English....

Unfortunately, I don’t think anyone got my initial thread exactly by the responses I received… If you guys, understood my topic is as “Why it is used ‘WE’ instead of ‘I’ in quran if Allah is ONE”…. NO.. that’s not my topic. Pls grasp... Pls read again…All ‘WE’ and ‘I’ or phrases like ‘Our Lord’, ‘Their Lord’, etc etc etc.. used in quran are absolutely right with reason…no issues.. no issues for me at all…. God used obviously right…
Who is this ‘US’ in particular 11:74 and 37:75…. “Argued with US” and “Called US”.. how could that be possible? What could be the scenario? How can God say ‘argued with US’ while Ibrahim didn’t argue with God.. but with Messengers… How can God say ‘Called US’ while He is ONE and We don’t call via Messengers in Direct Dua…So… unless there was a dialogue for both the incidents between Nuh/Ibrahim and Angel Messengers… No dialogue ever will happen between Man and Angel Messenger unless God send an Angel messenger to human… so what Angel Messenger spoke is God’s words…. Concern is with Nuh coz… not clear about Angel messengers.. but Ibrahim angel messengers spoke with the verse.. that’s why I assume Nuh also would have spoken with Angel Messengers for God to call in identical manner as of Ibrahim’s incident … Do you get me pls or am I weird… solve this pls with logic..
God is ONE there is no doubt….

quincy

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Re: Why PLURAL to call God......
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2019, 03:49:11 AM »
He doesn't need to call anyone but ONLY God... coz we never call so.. right?

Who said that? If you would drown in a lake would you call anyone else beside GOD? Calling to someone is different as to worship someone.
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