Author Topic: I am a former Tanakh Jew  (Read 2967 times)

Kyrate

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I am a former Tanakh Jew
« on: October 17, 2019, 10:58:46 AM »
Hello

My name is Mordy.

I am a former Tanakh Jew, basically a sola-scriptura Jew, similar to a Karaite Jew.  What that meant was that I viewed Tanakh (the Hebrew Bible) as the sole infallible ‘Word of God’.

My Tanakh Jewish faith fell apart back in March this year when I continued to find contradictions within the Biblical text and with recorded history.

This meant I could no longer be a Jew, non-rabbinic or rabbinic, and it also meant I couldn’t be a Christian either.  To me the scripture of a religion should stand alone, tradition-less and free of opinion.  In the last verse of Judges it says not to make our own opinion (as Karaites do – they say ‘search the scripture well’ and only to go with the weight of evidence, but personal opinion, grounded in Biblical exegesis, is what they say to do), yet the rabbinic opinions in the ‘oral law’ contradict the Written Law, so both rabbinic and non-rabbinic Judaism was out of the question.

Islam is much closer to Judaism than Christianity is, plus Tanakh and Karaite Jews pray by full prostration, albeit in the direction of the Western Wall in Jerusalem.

I am happy to be here, and I will continue reading the Qur’an, but the hadith are traditions on top of scripture, so a Muslim sola-scriptura movement would be more appealing.  Sorry if I got the wrong impression or you found that offensive.

Thank you for reading.

quincy

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Re: I am a former Tanakh Jew
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2019, 01:08:37 PM »
Peace, brother!

welcome to the Forum, hope you find what you are searching for. You will certainly find people with different mindsets around here but also open minded ones. Most importantly is, that we avoid dogmas which are harming the growth of our spiritual mind and understanding of GOD. The Truth will set us free.


huruf

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Re: I am a former Tanakh Jew
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2019, 03:36:37 PM »
Hello

My name is Mordy.

I am a former Tanakh Jew, basically a sola-scriptura Jew, similar to a Karaite Jew.  What that meant was that I viewed Tanakh (the Hebrew Bible) as the sole infallible ‘Word of God’.

My Tanakh Jewish faith fell apart back in March this year when I continued to find contradictions within the Biblical text and with recorded history.

This meant I could no longer be a Jew, non-rabbinic or rabbinic, and it also meant I couldn’t be a Christian either.  To me the scripture of a religion should stand alone, tradition-less and free of opinion.  In the last verse of Judges it says not to make our own opinion (as Karaites do – they say ‘search the scripture well’ and only to go with the weight of evidence, but personal opinion, grounded in Biblical exegesis, is what they say to do), yet the rabbinic opinions in the ‘oral law’ contradict the Written Law, so both rabbinic and non-rabbinic Judaism was out of the question.

Islam is much closer to Judaism than Christianity is, plus Tanakh and Karaite Jews pray by full prostration, albeit in the direction of the Western Wall in Jerusalem.

I am happy to be here, and I will continue reading the Qur’an, but the hadith are traditions on top of scripture, so a Muslim sola-scriptura movement would be more appealing.  Sorry if I got the wrong impression or you found that offensive.

Thank you for reading.

jkhan

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Re: I am a former Tanakh Jew
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2019, 09:15:07 PM »
Hello

My name is Mordy.

I am a former Tanakh Jew, basically a sola-scriptura Jew, similar to a Karaite Jew.  What that meant was that I viewed Tanakh (the Hebrew Bible) as the sole infallible ‘Word of God’.

My Tanakh Jewish faith fell apart back in March this year when I continued to find contradictions within the Biblical text and with recorded history.

This meant I could no longer be a Jew, non-rabbinic or rabbinic, and it also meant I couldn’t be a Christian either.  To me the scripture of a religion should stand alone, tradition-less and free of opinion.  In the last verse of Judges it says not to make our own opinion (as Karaites do – they say ‘search the scripture well’ and only to go with the weight of evidence, but personal opinion, grounded in Biblical exegesis, is what they say to do), yet the rabbinic opinions in the ‘oral law’ contradict the Written Law, so both rabbinic and non-rabbinic Judaism was out of the question.

Islam is much closer to Judaism than Christianity is, plus Tanakh and Karaite Jews pray by full prostration, albeit in the direction of the Western Wall in Jerusalem.

I am happy to be here, and I will continue reading the Qur’an, but the hadith are traditions on top of scripture, so a Muslim sola-scriptura movement would be more appealing.  Sorry if I got the wrong impression or you found that offensive.

Thank you for reading.

Peace Brother,...

Hope you are reading quran for guidance... Be a Jew always... .. there is no harm at all ... it's your identity... You should be proud to be one of the oldest of those who followed One God which is Jew as well..
Don't leave what is taught in your book... but always compare with quran if you find what is written in quran from God and true...
After all, those who accept one God and following his instruction (accepting what came before quran or what came after torah and believe in prophets and live without disobeying God and by not discriminating the messengers)...
Don't be one day a muslim who is conventional... (most of those who convert very much identically conventional unfortunately)
be who you are but include God to your life...That's it..

huruf

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Re: I am a former Tanakh Jew
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2019, 02:02:10 AM »


I just wanted to say welcome, but seems I didn't to it right.

So, Welcome

Salaam

good logic

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Re: I am a former Tanakh Jew
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2019, 04:33:52 AM »
Welcome to the forum and welcome to this "Islam":

http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/simple-and-universal-message/

It seems there are GOD s words and men s words. GOD s words have the ultimate authority for redemption.:
http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/word-of-people-v-word-of-god/

GOD bless you.
Peace
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Kyrate

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Re: I am a former Tanakh Jew
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2019, 02:07:40 PM »
Thank you all for your welcomes, and sorry for the late reply.

I agree that I am still a Jew, but don't identify as such publically.

Sola-scriptura forms of religion make more sense than the traditional religions, such as Tanakh/Karaite Judaism and Quranist (sorry if I got it wrong) Islam are truly sola-scriptura. Traditions aren't mentioned in either Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) or the Qur'an (from what I've read).  Tanakh has many positives, but also has many contradictions, as I said before.  Also the question has to be asked: what about Gentiles, where do they go when they die?  There's also an unanswered question in Tanakh, which is 'what happens when you die?'.  Two questions referring to the same overall topic.  Christianity has an answer to those questions, but the Christians don't keep kosher (or halal) and it said in the Christian testament that there would be a true prophet after Jesus, as Jesus said 'beware false prophets', so he implies there will also be a true prophet, who is Muhammad (pbuh).

I feel drawn to Islam, but the belief in the hadith makes me question the hadith, the sunnah, as they are the traditions of man, not the Word of God.  While some of it may be useful, the Word of God takes precedence over the word of man.

I look forward to reading more so if I have any questions I will post them, and please forgive me if they aren't worded right.

seekingtruth1111

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Re: I am a former Tanakh Jew
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2019, 03:45:54 AM »
Thank you all for your welcomes, and sorry for the late reply.

 Also the question has to be asked: what about Gentiles, where do they go when they die? 

I look forward to reading more so if I have any questions I will post them, and please forgive me if they aren't worded right.

Its a very good question. My understanding  from Quran is we dont need a scripture to be a Muslim that is peacefully surrendering to God Alone. Islam is not a proper name; it is a description of the mindset and actions of those who submit themselves to God alone by reasoning that God has given us.

 God has created us with the inherent ability and reasoning to submit to the God to whom all power belongs.We, the humans, are all born with innate ability to infer God's existence and power.

7:172 When your Lord took from the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves: "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this

So anyone that have this mindset irrespective of religion, race and do good works they will have their rewards from God.

2:111 They said, "None shall enter paradise except those who are Jewish or Nazarenes;" this is what they wish! say, "Bring forth your proof if you are truthful.
2:112 No, whosoever peacefully surrenders himself to God, while being a good-doer; he will have his reward with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
31:22 Whosoever peacefully surrenders himself completely to God, while he is righteous, then he has taken hold of the strongest bond. To God all matters will return.
4:125 Who is better in the system than one who peacefully surrenders himself to God, and is a good doer, and he followed the creed of Abraham in monotheism? God took Abraham as a friend.
33:35 Surely, the peacefully surrendering men, and the peacefully surrendering women, the acknowledging men, and the acknowledging women, the obedient men, and the obedient women, the truthful men, and the truthful women, the patient men, and the patient women, the humble men, and the humble women, the charitable men, and the charitable women, the fasting men, and the fasting women, the men who guard their private parts, and the women who similarly guard, and the men who commemorate God frequently, and the commemorating women; God has prepared for them a forgiveness and a great recompense.

In Quran who has acknowledged the Quran as a scripture from God are called Mumins/Belivers. This is the second stage after submitting to God Alone.

49:14 The Arabs said, "We acknowledge." Say, "You have not acknowledged; but you should say, 'We have peacefully surrendered', for acknowledgement has not yet entered into your hearts." If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Compassionate.


http://quransmessage.com/articles/muslim%20mumin%20FM3.htm


5:69 Surely those who believe/acknowledge; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

16:97 Whoever does good work, be he male or female, and is an Mumin/acknowledger, We will give him a good life and We will reward them their dues with the best of what they used to do.


 And we are born in different situations. So we will be judged as per our capacity

2:286 God does not impose a person beyond its capacity. For it is what it earns, and against it is what it earns. "Our Lord, do not mind us if we forget or make mistakes. Our Lord, do not place a burden upon us as You have placed upon those before us. Our Lord, do not burden us beyond our power; pardon us, and forgive us, and have compassion on us; You are our patron, help us against the ingrates."
7:42 As for those who acknowledge and do good; We do not burden a person beyond its capacity; those are the dwellers of paradise, in it they will abide.


With or without scripture people has the ability to realize the existence of God.
With or without scripture good people will do good work and bad people will do bad work.
But with messengers and scriptures we don't have any excuses.

4:165 Messengers who were bearers of good news and warners, so that there will be no excuse for the people with God after the messengers. God is Noble, Wise.

And now in this era of information its very hard not to find the message if someone is willing to.




Kyrate

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Re: I am a former Tanakh Jew
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2019, 11:17:17 AM »
Thank you for your reply.  I think I know what you're saying: continue in Judaism if I've read right.

Thing is, Tanakh doesn't say what happens after death, what happens to Gentiles (I said the previous two in a previous post, but I didn't clarify too well; sorry about that), why God needs to repent, why God needs to rest, who Messiah is, who 'that Prophet' is, along with other contradictions and ambiguous passages or not saying something on certain topics at all.

I think I read in the Christian Bible that the Jews had 'Elijah', 'the Messiah' and 'the Prophet', three figures who were meant to appear in succession.  I'm not a Christian, but it could be a reference to Jonathan the Baptiser, Jesus and Muhammad (pbuh).

seekingtruth1111

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Re: I am a former Tanakh Jew
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2019, 02:24:49 PM »

Thank you for your reply.  I think I know what you're saying: continue in Judaism if I've read right.

Thing is, Tanakh doesn't say what happens after death, what happens to Gentiles (I said the previous two in a previous post, but I didn't clarify too well; sorry about that), why God needs to repent, why God needs to rest, who Messiah is, who 'that Prophet' is, along with other contradictions and ambiguous passages or not saying something on certain topics at all.

I think I read in the Christian Bible that the Jews had 'Elijah', 'the Messiah' and 'the Prophet', three figures who were meant to appear in succession.  I'm not a Christian, but it could be a reference to Jonathan the Baptiser, Jesus and Muhammad (pbuh).

Peace

My answer is primarily to whether we need a scripture to be able to submit to God alone. So Gentiles too can have the ability to be able to submit to God Alone without any scripture by his reasoning. And whoever does that and do good work they will have their reward in hereafter.

Lets see the example from Abraham

6:75 And it is such that We showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, so that he will be of those who have certainty.
6:76 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said, "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said, "I do not like those that disappear."
6:77 So when he saw the moon rising, he said: "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said: "If my Lord does not guide me, then I will be among the wicked people!"
6:78 So when he saw the sun rising, he said, "This is my Lord, this is bigger." But when it disappeared he said, "My people, I am innocent of what you have set up."
6:79 "I shall turn my face to the One who initiated the heavens and the earth, in monotheism, and I am not of the polytheists."

So Abraham was able to come to the conclusion that there is a supreme being who has created us and everything in heavens and earth. Its in our DNA to search for our creator as all of us testified already.

7:172 When your Lord took from the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves: "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.

Once we are in that mindset and submitted to God Alone then we can explore if God has sent us any messages. If we try to find we will see that yes God has sent messengers and scriptures as per our ability.

Gentiles are the people who never received any scripture.

2:78 Amongst them are Gentiles who do not know the book except by hearsay, and they only conjecture.

Both Gentiles and the people of the book can submit to God alone

3:20 If they debate with you, then say, "I have peacefully surrendered myself to God, as well as those who follow me." In addition, say to those who were given the book and the Gentiles: "Have you peacefully surrendered?" If they have peacefully surrendered then they are guided; but if they turn away, then you are only to deliver. God is watcher over the servants.

Before the revelation of the Quran Muhammad was a Gentile(He did not have knowledge of Torah or Injil) and he was sent to Gentiles.

7:157 "Those who follow the gentile prophet whom they find written for them in the Torah and the Injeel; he orders them to goodness, deters them from evil, he makes lawful for them the good things, he forbids for them the evil, and he removes their burden and the shackles imposed upon them. So those who acknowledged him, honored him, supported him, and followed the light that was sent down with him; these are the successful."

 7:158 Say, "O people, I am God's messenger to you all. The One who has the sovereignty of heavens and earth, there is no god but He; He gives life and causes death." So acknowledge God and His gentile prophet, who acknowledges God and His words; and follow him that you may be guided.

62:2 He is the One who sent to the Gentiles a messenger from among themselves, to recite to them His signs, to purify them, to teach them the book and the wisdom. Before this, they were clearly astray.


Issa/Esau ibne Mariam Messiah was sent to the Children of Israel who were people of the book. (I am not quite convinced that Jesus/YESHUA and Issa/Esau are the same person. I recommend reading the book "Who Was Jesus?: A Conspiracy in Jerusalem" by Kamal Salibi) .

61:6 When Issa, son of Mariam, said, "O children of Israel, I am God's messenger to you, authenticating what is present with me of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be ‘most acclaimed.'" But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, ‘This is clearly magic.

So yes the prophet mentioned in the Injil is Muhammad.