Author Topic: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society  (Read 1073 times)

Jane

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Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2019, 05:32:57 AM »








When people think this is acceptable you know hijab culture has become toxic. Children deserve the right to grow up feeling the sun on their head and wind through their hair. What they choose to wear as an adult is up to them.
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MissMarple77

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Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2019, 05:36:43 AM »
33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters, and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks over themselves. Thus is it likelier that they will be known and not be disturbed. And God is Forgiving, Merciful.

The verse doesn't say it is impossible now any man could desire a woman when she is covered. Whatever to recognize as "covered", so also traditional hijab.
It says she will be recognized. So the man who harasses such a woman can expect being taught a painful lesson by the men of the woman's family/tribe.

People need to be enlightened. Our ancestors barely wore clothes. They didn't have easy access to malls and boutiques of affordable nylon, cotton, polyester and wool clothes. If they wanted to cover from cold, they sought crude animal skin.They had to risk their lives hunting games with crude tools in the wilderness to get a skin that barely covered them.

They did not have bathrooms or labor rooms, they were nomadic. If they wanted to shower or deliver their babies, they did this publicly. 

Many indigenous tribes today far from civilization live harmoniously with barely any cloth. They are not 'sexually harassing' themselves all day and having orgies all night.

Basically I agree. But we are lightyears away from such a state. There is no going back just by willpower. Like walking naked on the beach and pretending this is "natural", at the same time knowing one is naked. Civilization brings clothes with it. And it is much worse nowadays in modern times. 99 percent of things around (buildings, artwork etc.) are unnatural and terribly ugly looking. Therefore when a man sees a beautiful woman in the street, of course the attention is drawn to her, far beyond the natural instincts. If you see it from a neutral perspective, it is the only "piece of nature" that is around.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)

spodacus

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Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2019, 10:16:20 AM »
Salam,

A hijab or head cover (in current arabic slang) is just a piece of cloth. It is neither toxic or non-toxic. Qur'an does call for modest dress for both men and women so that is not up for debate.

Problem #1 is not the hijab but the IMBALANCE of men rights vs women rights in traditional islamic countries as in the middle east. That is what we, Qur'an followers, should all be fighting against.

Problem #2 is that hijab has become a symbol for women oppression which some people in the Western world use to push a overly sexual culture. That is also a problem for us Qur'an followers as we should not ascribe to that type of looseness in society.

So in my view, Qur'an followers should not defend the chauvinism in traditional Islamic world NOR should we support overly liberal Western views of sexuality. Women should be free to wear hijiab or not wear hijab.

Amra94

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Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2019, 10:25:53 AM »








When people think this is acceptable you know hijab culture has become toxic. Children deserve the right to grow up feeling the sun on their head and wind through their hair. What they choose to wear as an adult is up to them.
These toddlers look like they're just dressed up for a cute picture. I think most girls are pressured to wear the hijab around the age when they hit puberty. Yeah that's toxic.

ade_cool

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Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2019, 04:25:00 AM »
These toddlers look like they're just dressed up for a cute picture. I think most girls are pressured to wear the hijab around the age when they hit puberty. Yeah that's toxic.

Salam all,

I hope what Amra94 is saying above is true. The thing is in my country, it is not uncommon that toddlers are "jilbabed". Perhaps the parents are thinking that the earlier they introduce jilbab, the less rejection they will face from their daughters.


Wassalam,
Ade

amin

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Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2019, 07:05:43 AM »
The problem is when they are forcing this upon people in the name of religion, thinks like covering their faces including ones eyes. Yes its toxic.

MissMarple77

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Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2019, 10:11:09 AM »
But my impression from the photos, especially the first two, is more that it makes them look like little princesses.

They are more beautified than veiled! For this reason, I think, not such a good idea to dress little girls like this. Most little girls from non-muslim families are less dressed up and look like poor Cinderella compared to this.

Children like colourful clothes. I doubt, if there is really a need for pressure, to make the children wear this. Some will rebell, surely. But the masses follow just habits for their whole life. A clever way to make them used to the black veils, when they are older.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)

Neptin

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Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2019, 12:04:48 AM »
33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters, and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks over themselves. Thus is it likelier that they will be known and not be disturbed. And God is Forgiving, Merciful.

The verse doesn't say it is impossible now any man could desire a woman when she is covered. Whatever to recognize as "covered", so also traditional hijab.

Well, I never meant hijab was intended to eradicate completely male desire.

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It says she will be recognized. So the man who harasses such a woman can expect being taught a painful lesson by the men of the woman's family/tribe.

So, the man who harrasses women without hijab can't expect repercussion? If the purpose of hijab is to mark wearers as off limit, it does that at the disservice or expense of those women not wearing hijab.

What would be even more appropriate than asking women to wear hijab for recognition is teaching men to respect every woman and enforcing penalties for sexual harrassment.

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Basically I agree. But we are lightyears away from such a state. There is no going back just by willpower. Like walking naked on the beach and pretending this is "natural", at the same time knowing one is naked. Civilization brings clothes with it. And it is much worse nowadays in modern times. 99 percent of things around (buildings, artwork etc.) are unnatural and terribly ugly looking. Therefore when a man sees a beautiful woman in the street, of course the attention is drawn to her, far beyond the natural instincts. If you see it from a neutral perspective, it is the only "piece of nature" that is around.

Look, I'm not calling for us all to become nudists. But our understanding of hijab and modest dressing and our attitude to nudity need to evolve.
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SarahY

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Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2019, 08:16:08 AM »
I'm not sure if it is like that in all muslim countries but yeh def sux when you need medical care and can't be seen to because you're of the opposite sex.

It's a culture moreso than religious practise and those things don't tend to change overnight however I do believe people's views are evolving.

The hijab culture isn't entirely toxic and modesty will differ between diff people even of the same culture. I think there is some hostility and some "toxicity" but there is also liberation. I know it sounds like an oxymoron but it all depends on what eyeview you look at.

I don't know how hijab builds sexual repression? Sexualisation happens with or without a hijab culture.

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It is toxic because instead of teaching men more on self control and respecting every woman; it teaches women self-shame, that their bodies are problem and that the burden of preserving the family and society honor lay upon them.

Society/cultures teach that, you don't need hijab for that. Society teaches women are second class citizens designed to serve men. Only good if they are pretty, subservient, meek and willing to sacrifice themselves to men's needs and/or children's upbringing as well as being content with the graces they've been provided with. Forget ambitions, goals or dreams, they're only ok if they fit in the man's vision or goals and dreams. 

Instead men and women need to be taught to respect each other and their differing attributes and acknowledge that yeah someone might be attractive but there are boundaries in life.
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MissMarple77

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Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2019, 09:27:10 AM »
So, the man who harrasses women without hijab can't expect repercussion? If the purpose of hijab is to mark wearers as off limit, it does that at the disservice or expense of those women not wearing hijab.

I guess you are talking about this sick attitude of some muslims that it is justified to regard uncovered women as whores.

Unbelieving women are forbidden even to marry according to Quran. So logically, outside of marriage even more forbidden. If she is a believer, but not covered in a certain way - also haram to harass her. Really simple.

Belonging to this or that group was much more important in those days than in our modern states with tons of laws and police everywhere. So in which way the women were protected, that did not belong to Mohammed's group, was not his concern.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)