Author Topic: I have given up on the Muslim community for this reason  (Read 3501 times)

Jafar

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Re: I have given up on the Muslim community for this reason
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2019, 12:03:41 PM »
And either one ignores it or studies it deeper.

Feel free to study any books, infact I recommend anyone to study as much books or sources as he/she can.

But the revelation will come directly from God nonetheless, it doesn't matter on which books that one studied or not studied.
God's revelation came through unlimited number of channels
Just ask and it shall be given, seek and you shall find.

And that's how people who lived before Quran (or Jesus incase you're christian or Torah incase you're Judaism) received their revelation, directly from the source through myriad of means.

The hardest part is actually the aftermath, when the revelation does come and you might not like it as you need to admit that I was wrong or I made a mistake. Certainly we will all made mistakes, the hardest part is how we learn from it.
Learning can only be achieved through mistakes, without the capability of realizing our own mistakes we will not be able to learn.

It's very hard to swallow our own ego. That is actually the real challenge to become muslim (the attitude and not the religion), it requires a hefty doze of humility and sacrificing of our own ego.
As our ego / identity in this life are temporary anyway, we were born at specific point in time and we will die at specific point in time, thus we will be forced to sacrifice our ego and current identity when it's time for us to leave.

good logic

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Re: I have given up on the Muslim community for this reason
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2019, 05:53:29 AM »
Peace Jafar.

Studying a book  so one is not making assumptions about it or relying on what others make of it is all I am asking you to do with Qoran. If you want.
Your choice.
If you are receiving revelations not to do that  that is fine by me also.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Neptin

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Re: I have given up on the Muslim community for this reason
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2019, 07:17:51 AM »
Peace Jafar.

Studying a book  so one is not making assumptions about it or relying on what others make of it is all I am asking you to do with Qoran. If you want.
Your choice.
If you are receiving revelations not to do that  that is fine by me also.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace, goodlogic; there is a fallacy behind your proposition to study the Qur'an, deeper and objectively to understand its meaning. This is the ambiguity fallacy.

What in the world is "study the Qur'an deeper & objectively"? Every Muslim theologian in history, all the muftis in Saudi Arabia, or ayatollahs of Iran, or talibans of Pakistan/Afghanistan claimed to "study the Qur'an both deeply and objectively".

The truth is, the Qur'an was sent to lay and illiterate Arabs. When the Qur'an was recited to them, it was clear enough they understood what it meant. They didn't study the Qur'an, they listened to it. Repeatedly, the Qur'an insist on its clarity. It shouldn't be rocket science.

Lastly, I'd like to touch on huruf and co.'s assertion that the "Qur'an is perfect but it is our interpretation that is imperfect."

Look, how do we know Qur'an is perfect if our interpretation of Qur'an is not perfect? You can't conclude some thing is perfect unless you reach the perfect interpretation of it.

Another truth, the only reason why we tend to downplay concerns about flaws of the Qur'an is because we believe it is the book of God, and as such we're biased in its favor. If the Qur'an is believed to be the book of man like the US constitution or Sumerian literature, none would dismiss concerns of its flaws so confidently.

Reclaiming Islam from extremism;
Flames Of Truth

huruf

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Re: I have given up on the Muslim community for this reason
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2019, 09:42:54 AM »
Well you find the Qur'an "imperfect", that is your business and your miss, not mine. But it is no use saying that those who are satisfied with Qur'an it is because they have some flaw, or are pejudiced whereas you are not flawed and are not prejudiced. Very nice of you to point out our shortcomings.

Still, shortcomings or not, you miss something, we don't.

I loose nothing because you do not benefit from Qur'an but you do miss something if you do not benefit from Qur'an instead of benefitting, however clever you may feel you are and however dumb or incapable of discerning  you may feel we are, which, by the way, I could not care less whether you call us that or whatever you fancy we should be so that you feel vindicated in your own misfeelings twoard Qur'an.

Salaam

Jafar

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Re: I have given up on the Muslim community for this reason
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2019, 11:11:44 AM »
Another truth, the only reason why we tend to downplay concerns about flaws of the Qur'an is because we believe it is the book of God, and as such we're biased in its favor. If the Qur'an is believed to be the book of man like the US constitution or Sumerian literature, none would dismiss concerns of its flaws so confidently.

Make sense, and it's the best approach.
Judge the book by it's content and not it's cover.
Regardless who the author was, who the publisher was.

That's why I think the best books for Quranist to read is not the Quran, but other books such as but not limited to: Gospel, Torah, Tao The Ching, Veda or even today's books. As such they will read the book objectively, they will take what is good from such material and ignore what is bad without any fear that the God will be angry at them or torture them in the afterlife.

And by the way, one should ponder on the true motives of the claim that certain materials (book, ebook, stone tablet, clay tablet) was actually written by God. Why they even bothered to make such claim? As truth is truth regardless of the source and BS is BS.

huruf

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Re: I have given up on the Muslim community for this reason
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2019, 02:38:57 PM »
In this forum may be there is some qura'nists, but there are also some gods, because they know all about the people, they know what they have read, what they feel what they know why they read...

Congratulations ladies and gentlemen Gods of this forum who know all and know how to teach to the dumb readers of Qur'an that have the audacity of not disparaing the Qur'an and the gods do.

Salaam, gods and men

good logic

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Re: I have given up on the Muslim community for this reason
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2019, 03:50:13 AM »
Peace Neptin.
First this, your quote:

Peace, goodlogic; there is a fallacy behind your proposition to study the Qur'an, deeper and objectively to understand its meaning. This is the ambiguity fallacy.

Then do not study it. Your choice.

Then this  your other quote:

The truth is, the Qur'an was sent to lay and illiterate Arabs. When the Qur'an was recited to them, it was clear enough they understood what it meant. They didn't study the Qur'an, they listened to it. Repeatedly, the Qur'an insist on its clarity. It shouldn't be rocket science.

Where do you get "illiterate" Arabs from? If it is from " Ummiyun", then I disagree .It does not mean illiterates . Like all other races, Arabs included all sorts of different characters from illiterates to geniuses when Qoran appeared.

"Iqraa" means read and ponder/study ,not just read. GOD taught with "Al Qualami- The pen- Man what man did not know.. If only the word listen was used properly, you would realise from listening one is required to pick the best knowledge/advice....-Yastamiuna Al Quawl Fa Yattabihuna Ahsanahu-

Anyway, you are entitled to just listen and believe what you want brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

huruf

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Re: I have given up on the Muslim community for this reason
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2019, 04:28:28 AM »
Yes, neptin and others, are entitled to believe whatever they fancy not only about the Qur'an and God an rocket science, but also about other people who do not happen to join them in their reveries about the inadequacy or wrongess or whatever they fancy saying of the Qur'an when they fancy. To them e are fanatics, indoctrinated, not have read anything else but just the Qur'an therefore we are helpless and dumb and... keep adding compliments
the list.

Depending on what list, their list of reading matter proposed to us dumb Qur'an worshippers is indeed short. There are many more interestig thing than those they have listed, but what do we know? Only those know anything who have the superiority to put the Qur'an in its place.

It reminds me of Max Stirner but the wrong, wrong way.

Salaam

good logic

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Re: I have given up on the Muslim community for this reason
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2019, 06:01:21 AM »
Sister huruf, this is very similar of what Qoran is saying to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X7fZoDs9KU

That is one of the examples I can give  Jafar and Neptin , if they wish to dig deep to find out about Qoran.

I will add that one needs to look both inward and outward when investigating to make sure of the balance.

Easy to label and make assumptions ,very hard to stop and ponder all reasons.

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

hawk99

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Re: I have given up on the Muslim community for this reason
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2019, 07:03:43 AM »
God alone is not the only message of Qur'an. There are statutes spelt out for Muslims to live by.


True, guidance is the thing, to live the good life!


I don't think

Learn how to.   :handshake:


I don't think any Muslim today believe the Qur'an to be less than perfect, all the verses are considered perfect by Muslims.

 

Here you go again!  Stop speaking for others    :brickwall:

In this forum may be there is some qura'nists, but there are also some gods, because they know all about the people, they know what they have read, what they feel what they know why they read...

Congratulations ladies and gentlemen Gods of this forum who know all and know how to teach to the dumb readers of Qur'an that have the audacity of not disparaing the Qur'an and the gods do.

Salaam, gods and men

 :)  :D  ;D


The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden