Author Topic: But the men have a degree over them & witnesses  (Read 1587 times)


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But the men have a degree over them & witnesses
« on: July 10, 2014, 01:34:56 PM »
ladies and gentelman hello;
l have some question to you about verses from the cow (2:228 & 2:282)
1) 2:228
"Divorced women remain in waiting for three periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have more right to take them back in this [period] if they want reconciliation. And due to the wives is similar to what is expected of them, according to what is reasonable. But the men have a degree over them [in responsibility and authority]. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."
But the men have a degree over them . according to this there in an inequality between men and women, why the man has to have a degree over women?
2) 2:282
"O you who have believed, when you contract a debt for a specified term, write it down. And let a scribe write [it] between you in justice. Let no scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him. So let him write and let the one who has the obligation dictate. And let him fear Allah , his Lord, and not leave anything out of it. But if the one who has the obligation is of limited understanding or weak or unable to dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her. And let not the witnesses refuse when they are called upon. And do not be [too] weary to write it, whether it is small or large, for its [specified] term. That is more just in the sight of Allah and stronger as evidence and more likely to prevent doubt between you, except when it is an immediate transaction which you conduct among yourselves. For [then] there is no blame upon you if you do not write it. And take witnesses when you conclude a contract. Let no scribe be harmed or any witness. For if you do so, indeed, it is [grave] disobedience in you. And fear Allah . And Allah teaches you. And Allah is Knowing of all things."
if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses.. why one men and two women, this means that woman has half of men brain.a man is more conscious? more aware?
3)why in the coran it is not mentionned if woman can divorce her man, only men can divorce?


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Re: But the men have a degree over them & witnesses
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2014, 04:40:33 PM »
I recommend:

To understand the sequence of events, we must fully understand the divorce procedure according to The Quran:

'cooling-off' period for those who swear away from their wives sexually, limited to 4 months [2:226]*
after this 4 month 'cooling-off' period, the options are: revert to normal relations or divorce/talaq [2:227]
post-divorce interim/waiting period is 3 menstruation periods or 3 months, if pregnant it is until they deliver, if widowed it is 4 months and 10 days [2:228, 2:234, 65:4]
if no sex has taken place after marriage, then no interim period is required after divorce/talaq [33:49]. Compensation may be due however if dower was agreed upon [2:237]
during post-divorce interim period, wife remains in the same house, and is compensated by way of maintenance during this period in the same living standard as the husband, each according to their means [2:236, 2:241, 65:1, 65:6-7]**
divorce is automatically retracted if sex between the couple takes place during the interim period [inference from 2:226, 33:49, 65:1]***
if couple reconciles, then divorce/talaq may be retracted twice during interim-period. If divorced a third time it is final unless she marries another then they divorce, only then can original partners re-marry. If the couple fear they will not maintain God's bounds, then wife may give some dowry back to release herself [2:229-230]
if couple still wishes to follow through with the divorce/talaq after the end of the interim period and undergo final separation, then two witnesses are required to complete the process [65:2]
exceptions exist, in certain situations [60:10-11]
the onus is upon the person in the wrong to rectify the situation or initiate divorce/release, and it is an obligation upon the contract-breaking party to compensate the other [2:229, 2:237, 4:19, 4:128-129, 33:28, 60:10-11]
As a side note, the last point is also mentioned in traditional Islamic law and sources, see M.Asad's note on 2:229. This system would also protect the male if he were to marry a female who only did so for his money or the marital gift then she wished to end the marriage later, because since the contract-breaking party compensates the other partner, she would have to do so accordingly. Similarly, this would protect the female if she were to marry a male who only did so for lustful reasons then wished to end the marriage later, as he would then have to compensate her.

*Also possibly provides a time limit due to a practice of the time in which husbands did not have sex with their wives but also did not divorce them, see 58:1-4, 33:4; i.e. leaving them in a state between marriage and divorce. Similar to what is implied by 4:129.

**And the same goes for the lesser situation of 'cooling-off' period. Obviously, the wife would not be removed from the home for the lesser serious 'cooling-off' period then brought back just for the post-divorce interim period.

***Inference from 2:226 is that resumption of sexual relations is equated to reconciliation, thus no initiation of divorce. Hence, same proviso for post-divorce interim period, i.e. sex = reconciliation.

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles


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Re: But the men have a degree over them & witnesses
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2014, 01:06:56 AM »
Degree is not rank and you must see that they aya refers to the situation of divorce and the fact that the woman, if she believes in God, should not hide pregnancy. It is not setting ranks. Draja in the Qur'an is never a rank but an specialty. Prophets have different missions, and the Qur'an says that saying they have different daraja. But sets not rnaks within them. In this case the daraja is of responsibility and duty. If the woman is pregnant upon de ex husband revolves the duty to attempt at reconciliation if it is possible, and if not, the duty to provide for the child and the mother.

Also, see, that it would be ridiculous to set and different rank where it says just before that to them (feminine plural) same as against them (feminine plural), if this istrue it cannot be negated after saying the opposite, so it is not a question of ranking but of the specificity of the conditions.

Concerning the witnessing, As shown, quite wisely by the way, by Ale Asghar Engineer, who a short time ago, the outlook in Qur'an respecting women and men differs in that women are considered from the point of view of their (of the women) rights and men from the point of view of their (of the men) duties.

So the question of the witnessing that you put forward as far as I can see stems from the fact that it is not voluntary witnessing but that the witnessing is imposed. It is an obligation. Of course the witnessing by women must be accepted just as the witnessing by males, but they are nto to be obliged, in this case since it is an obligation, in orde to soften it and make it easier it is proposed what shown. It is in a setting where obviously it may not be easy to get capable witnesses.

The ridiculous attempt to disqualify women as witnesses is not the product of Qur'an but of the malecentric mentality, which if it does not cling to that would cling to something other. Where there is a will there is a way. No scripture will stand in the way of pride and self-delusion. And in order to bring the Qur'an in true light as the Qur'an itself says, you must be of pure heart.