Author Topic: THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF THE CAVE WERE 3, 5, or 7 ? (18:22)  (Read 4863 times)

Mazhar

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Re: THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF THE CAVE WERE 3, 5, or 7 ? (18:22)
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2019, 07:22:24 AM »
Salaam,




Peace Mazhar,


Agree that  ما يعلمهم الا قليل  does not refer to  بعدتهم  , but to them,
otherwise I think it would say : يعلمها

but why do you conclude that ما يعلمهم الا قليل  means:

"Since except a small segment, people do not know them".


Could you explain what other translators missed ?

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/18/22/



والله اعلم
Allah knows best.

Because of the sentence structure negation and then exception. Ma and La structure. Verb is in Indicative Mood; covering present and future timeline. Subject of a verb needs to be specified. Qaleel is just quantification noun.

ibn_a

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Re: THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF THE CAVE WERE 3, 5, or 7 ? (18:22)
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2019, 01:31:11 AM »
Salaam,



Because of the sentence structure negation and then exception. Ma and La structure. Verb is in Indicative Mood; covering present and future timeline. Subject of a verb needs to be specified. Qaleel is just quantification noun.

Peace Mazhar,

Thanks for taking time to answer,
I am familiar with basic Arabic, less with grammar rules.

Do the grammar rules also allow for:
ما يعلمهم الا قليل    to mean: "Not knows them except few",

like others have translated, or are they wrong, and of course both statements cannot be true.

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/18/22/default.htm


والله اعلم
Allah knows best.



Iyyaka

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Re: THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF THE CAVE WERE 3, 5, or 7 ? (18:22)
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2020, 03:46:53 PM »
Thanks.

It helped me immediately detect omission in my parsing into sentences. They are two separate sentences. Second not about number.


سَيَقُولُونَ ثَلٟثَةٚ رَّابِعُهُـمْ كَلْبُـهُـمْ

People will keep saying that they were three in number and fourth companion of them was their dog —

وَيَقُولُونَ خَـمْسَةٚ سَادِسُهُـمْ كَلْبُـهُـمْ رَجْـمَاۢبِٱلْغَيْبِۖ

And others will say that they were five in number and sixth companion of them was their dog, hurling imaginary thoughts —

وَيَقُولُونَ سَبْعَةٚ وَثَامِنُـهُـمْ كَلْبُـهُـمْۚ

And yet others will say that they were seven in number and eighth companion was their dog.

قُل رَّبِّـى أَعْلَمُ بِعِدَّتِـهِـم

You the Messenger [Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] pronounce, "My Sustainer Lord knows most certainly the exact number of them".

مَّا يَعْلَمُهُـمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلٚۗ

Since except a small segment, people do not know them  —
فَلَا تُمَارِ فِيـهِـمْ إِلَّا مِرَآءٙ ظَٟهِرٙا وَلَا تَسْتَفْتِ فِيـهِـم مِّنْـهُـمْ أَحَدٙا .18:22٢٢

Therefore, you should not enter into controversy about them except the evidently visible point [disclosed above] and nor you should enquire about them from any one of them. [18:22]
Yes you're right. I was wrong too. 2 differents sentences.

Iyyaka

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Re: THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF THE CAVE WERE 3, 5, or 7 ? (18:22)
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2020, 10:22:29 AM »
Yes you're right. I was wrong too. 2 differents sentences.
clarification: Yes 2 sentences but the second one includes the problem of the first sentence.

Other verses with classical translation:
Quran, 18:25 :
وَلَبِثُوا فِي كَهْفِهِمْ ثَلَاثَ مِائَةٍ سِنِينَ وَازْدَادُوا تِسْعًا
And they remained in their cave (for) three hundred years and add nine.
Quran, 18:26:
[...]قُلِ اللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا لَبِثُوا
Say, "Allah knows best about what they remained.

Question / reflection: What is the reference of these 3 subject pronouns to the end of these verbs?