Author Topic: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats  (Read 1182 times)

The Sardar

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An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« on: May 23, 2019, 09:52:35 AM »
Salam/Peace everyone. I just came across a Ex-Muslim who seemed to "exposed miracles" of Qur'an and i wonder if any of you can help me on this.

Now i noticed in of his points about "Egg-Earth or Flat Earth" which he uses like dahaha, brother Qur'an Centric has made 2 videos about the Earth shape and he touched on the root word definitions of the words: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hOQfxtqPj0 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-YBkg4IY84

The Ex-Muslim known as Amar Khan also seems use verses like the Iron Sign (57:25) to make it look like it's not a miracle because it was known before Muhammad. Here is a problem of his claim. While the Qur'an IS a revelation, it's also a REMINDER, Qur'an does contain some new revealing things, there is also REMINDERS in the Qur'an (38:1, 21:10)

https://www.scribd.com/document/31782370


I hope i am not putting a burden to you siblings. I just don't have enough much scientific knowledge on branches like embryology or astronomy and i hope anyone here who is willing to review critically on this.

P.S My advice is check the context of the verses.

Mazhar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2019, 10:44:57 AM »
Quote
Now i noticed in of his points about "Egg-Earth or Flat Earth" which he uses like dahaha,



And after this discharge of heat of the Sky He the Exalted rendered her (the Earth) like the communal ostrich pit for spawning. [79:30]

The verb stems from Root: د ح و/ى. Ibn Faris (died 1105) stated in his famous lexicon: "That it leads to the perception of outstretching and softening the ground as a settlement. And from it is the communal pit-settlement of ostrich, a place wherein it spawns, it is so called since he makes the settlement with his feet and afterwards eggs are laid therein. It does not denote "ostrich nest".

Lane's Lexicon has rendered it like this:

"inf. n. دَحْوٌ, He spread; spread out, or forth; expanded; or extended; ---also, said of an ostrich, he expanded, and made wide, with his foot, or leg, the place where he was about to deposit his eggs:

أُدْحِىٌّ  , [originally أُدْحُوىٌ, of the measure أُفْعُولٌ from دَحَيْتُ, but said in the S to be of that measure from دَحَوْتُ, the dial.var. دَحَيْتُ not being there mentioned,] and إِِدْحِىٌّ and ↓ أُدْحِيَّةٌ and ↓ أُدْحُوَّةٌ , The place of the laying of eggs, and of the hatching thereof,) of the ostrich, in the sand; because that bird expands it, and makes it wide, with its foot, or leg; for the ostrich has no [nest such as is termed] عُشّ:" unquote

The most prominent relationship with this Root is that of ostrich. It is the world's largest and heaviest surviving bird, and so are their eggs largest in the world 5.9 inches long and 5.1 inches wide and weighing in at around 3-5 pounds each.

Because the ostrich has an elongated neck and large protruding eyes shadowed by long lashes, it has been likened to a camel, the most liked mammal of Arabs. (Its scientific name is Struthio camelus!) Ostriches can also withstand hot temperatures and go for long periods of time without water, usually getting enough moisture from the plants they eat.

They generally live together in small groups led by a dominant male and a dominant female. After copulation, the male creates what is known as a communal pit in the Earth; 12?24 inches deep and almost 10ft wide. The dominant female then lays her eggs first before being followed by others in the group.

It is thus evident that if the subject of verb   with suffixed pronoun for the Earth is the male Ostrich, it will exclusively signify the aforementioned act and the affect upon Earth.

Therefore, the irreducible semantic feature of this root is the setting of Earth as a settlement for spawning: to produce offspring in large numbers, and its communal aspect.

Grand Qur?ān has used many Roots for explaining the distinct-unique features and information about the Earth?geodetics engineering. Although there may seemingly be some overlapping aspects while transferring their concepts in English language, but every Root has unique features of its own.

http://haqeeqat.pk/EarthHistory.htm

Mazhar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2019, 10:57:02 AM »
None of Index page opens.

The Sardar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2019, 10:59:11 AM »
None of Index page opens.
Try this: https://www.scribd.com/document/31782370/Miracles-of-the-Quran-Exposed   

P.S Forgot to mention, he uses some hadiths.

Mazhar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 11:16:21 AM »
Try this: https://www.scribd.com/document/31782370/Miracles-of-the-Quran-Exposed   

P.S Forgot to mention, he uses some hadiths.

We need not be allergic to "hadith". Epistemology of Testimony is itself a branch of knowledge.

Mazhar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2019, 11:18:49 AM »

The Sardar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2019, 11:20:39 AM »
Huh that's odd. Can anyone else check it out? Otherwise a google search may have to do. And remember what i stated above.

imrankhawaja

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 08:08:47 PM »
. I just don't have enough much scientific knowledge on branches like embryology or astronomy and i hope anyone here who is willing to review critically on this.

thats why you are struggling my brother,

first of all get knowledge instead of wasting your precious time on consprisy theorists and low-profiled people like dr kashif and amar and flat earthers  you should read SCIENCE, EMBRYOLOGY, HISTORY, GRAMMER etc once you have a grip on things then its easy for you to locate their stupidity faster than the speed of light...

LOOK an example...

The original composition date or century for the Kamasutra is unknown. Historians have variously placed it between 400 BCE and 300 CE

and this STUPID claims Indians copied this from Bukhari and company  :rotfl:

i can fill this post with more stupidities , but i want YOU to find out by yourself.. (for this give yourself 3 years of studying all those things what i suggested you above)  just one thing is enough to expose someone stupidity and lies i wonder how people even think about wasting their time reading all those stuff that filled with lot of lies and mis-information.


The Sardar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 08:34:29 PM »
thats why you are struggling my brother,

first of all get knowledge instead of wasting your precious time on consprisy theorists and low-profiled people like dr kashif and amar and flat earthers  you should read SCIENCE, EMBRYOLOGY, HISTORY, GRAMMER etc once you have a grip on things then its easy for you to locate their stupidity faster than the speed of light...

LOOK an example...

The original composition date or century for the Kamasutra is unknown. Historians have variously placed it between 400 BCE and 300 CE

and this STUPID claims Indians copied this from Bukhari and company  :rotfl:

i can fill this post with more stupidities , but i want YOU to find out by yourself.. (for this give yourself 3 years of studying all those things what i suggested you above)  just one thing is enough to expose someone stupidity and lies i wonder how people even think about wasting their time reading all those stuff that filled with lot of lies and mis-information.
Is there a good place for finding this knowledge? Also good to see you again brother Imran.

imrankhawaja

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2019, 08:53:40 PM »
Is there a good place for finding this knowledge? Also good to see you again brother Imran.

you/we are so lucky at  this time/space knowledge is just in the movements of your/our fingertips... what you NEED is time for getting that knowledge

good to see you too.

The Sardar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2019, 09:11:26 PM »
We need not be allergic to "hadith". Epistemology of Testimony is itself a branch of knowledge.
I don't why but that sounded funny in my head. No offense by the way.

The Sardar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2019, 09:12:06 PM »
you/we are so lucky at  this time/space knowledge is just in the movements of your/our fingertips... what you NEED is time for getting that knowledge

good to see you too.
Only if i know where to find it :) Any website you can recommend to find?

imrankhawaja

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2019, 09:21:52 PM »
Only if i know where to find it :) Any website you can recommend to find?

Google search bar   :peace:

The Sardar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2019, 06:38:24 AM »
Well the thing i don't know what to type......i know, it sounds a bit dumb since i am not that smart. :(

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2019, 06:44:32 AM »
Here is something from a another forum about the two bahr which that article is referring to:

Salam/Peace, sorry to wake up an old forum but i think we should research to word Bahr and Maraja. Honestly, i am not 100% sure if Bahr is really sea in 55:19-20, 25:53, 27:61, 35:12. Plus Allah (SWTAY) said: He MARAJA (مرج) the bahrayni/لبحرين (dual), we need the check the root words, especially the root word definition:

Ba-Ha-Ra (ب ح ر) =

Slit, cut, divide lengthwise, split, enlarge or make wide
A vast expanse of water (Ocean, sea, huge river)
A fleet swift horse called because of its speed like the rolling of the waves in the sea
A generous man who is ample in his generosity
Wide tract of land, land belonging to or inhabited by people
Any town, village or city that has a running river or a body of water
Low or depressed land
A large meadow or garden
A place where water stagnates
Seaman, sailor
"Bahira" (a camel dedicated to idols, 5:103)?

bahr n.m. (pl. bihar abhur) 2:50, 2:164, 5:96, 6:59, 6:63, 6:97, 7:138, 7:163, 10:22, 10:90, 14:32, 16:14, 17:66, 17:67, 17:70, 18:60, 18:61, 18:63, 18:79, 18:109, 18:109, 20:77, 22:65, 24:40, 25:53, 26:63, 27:61, 27:63, 30:41, 31:27, 31:27, 31:31, 35:12, 42:32, 44:24, 45:12, 52:6, 55:19, 55:24, 81:6, 82:3

bahirah n. 5:103

LL, V1, p: 193, 194  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=bHr

Miim-Ra-Jiim (م ر ج) = pasture, maraja = mixed (one thing with another), flow & flow freely (as separate entities), set forth, mariija = marred/spoiled/corrupted/impaired/disturbed/unsteady/confused.

maraja vb. (1)
perf. act. 25:53, 55:19

marij n.m. 55:15

marij n.m. 50:5

marjan n.m. 55:22, 55:58

LL, V7, p: 232  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=mrj

Interestingly, Musa mentioned AL-BAHRAYANI in 18:60

18:60 واذ قال موسىا لفتىاه لا ابرح حتىا ابلغ مجمع البحرين او امضى حقبا
Wa-ith qala moosa lifatahula abrahu hatta ablugha majmaAAa albahrayniaw amdiya huquban
And Moses said to his youth: "I will not stop until I reach the junction of the bahrayni, or I spend a lifetime trying."

Also the words involving the bahryani verses is AAathbun (عذب), furâtun (فرات), milHun (اجاج), ujâjun (اجاج) and hâdhâ (هاذا):

AAathbun (عذب)

Ayn-Thal-Ba = chastisement, castigate, punishment, torture, torment, retribution, abstain/desist (e.g. from eating due to excessive thirst), relinquish, quit. To deny a thing, hinder anyone from, be inaccessible, prevent.
adhb - palatable, sweet (usually water), e.g. 25:53, 35:12.

'Adhbun (n.): Sweet, Agreeable to taste.
'Adhaba (prf. 3rd. m. sing. II): He punished.
'Adhabnaa (prf. 1st. plu. II): We punished.
Yu'adhdhibu (imp. 3rd. m. sing. II): He will punish, punishes.
Li Yu'dhdhiba (imp. 3rd. m. sing. II. el.): That he may punish.
Laa Yu'adhdhab: None shall execute (his) punishment.
Tu'adhdhibu (imp. 2nd. m. sing. II.): Thou punish.
'Au'adhdhibu (imp. 1st. sing II): I punish.
U'adhdhibanna (imp. 1st. sing. imp.): I will certainly punish.
Nu'dhdhibu (imp. 1st. plu. II): We punish.
Mu'adhdhibun (ap-der. m. sing.): Treat with punishment; Going to punish.
Mu'dhdiribuuna (ap-der. m. plu. acc.): Giver of punishment.
Mu'adhdhibuu (ap-der. m. plu. final Nun dropped; nom.): Chastiser.
Mu'adhdhabiina (pis. plc. m. plu. acc.): Those who are punished.
'Adhaabun (n.): Punishment; Torment; Chastisement.

Furâtun (فرات):

Fa-Ra-Ta = to be sweet (water), thirst quenching, The Euphrate/Tigris.

furat n.m. 25:53, 35:12, 77:27

LL, V6, p: 142  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=frt

MilHun (اجاج):

Miim-Lam-Ha = To suckle or give suck, to be saltish or bitter, to become fat, to be goodly/beautiful/pretty, pleasing to the eye or ear, inclining to gray or whiteness, adopt one as a foster brother.

milh n. com. 25:53, 35:12

LL, V7, p: 259, 260, 261, 262  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=mlH

Ujâjun (اجاج):

Alif-Jiim-Lam = assigned/appointed/specified/decreed term, period, day of resurrection, period between creation and death, period between death and resurrection, period remaining in the world, delay/postponed/deferral of time.

ajlun (par.): reason.
ajal (n.): an appointed time.
ajalain (dual): two terms.
ajjalta (perf. 2nd. m. sing.): thou has appointed.
ujjilat (pp. 3rd. f. sing.): has been fixed (term).
mu'jjalun (pis-pic): fixed term.

ajal n.m. 2:231, 2:232, 2:234, 2:235, 2:282, 2:282, 4:77, 6:2, 6:2, 6:60, 6:128, 7:34, 7:34, 7:135, 7:185, 10:11, 10:49, 10:49, 11:3, 11:104, 13:2, 13:38, 14:10, 14:44, 15:5, 16:61, 16:61, 17:99, 20:129, 22:5, 22:33, 23:43, 28:28, 28:29, 29:5, 29:53, 30:8, 31:29, 35:13, 35:45, 39:5, 39:42, 40:67, 42:14, 46:3, 63:10, 63:11, 65:2, 65:4, 71:4, 71:4

ajl n.m. 5:32

ajjala vb. (2)
perf. act. 6:128
perf. pass. 77:12
pcple. pass. 3:145

Lane's Lexicon, Volume 1, pages: 61, 62, 63  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=ajl

Now i couldn't find hâdhâ (هاذا) in PRL so maybe brother Wakas could help out on this.

Is anyone here have any scientific knowledge can give us any information on any vast expanse of water involving with salty and bitter and palatable and sweet?

The Sardar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2019, 07:08:06 AM »
Google search bar   :peace:
I did what you said, i google seas don't mix and many of them claim to "refute" but here is something i noticed.

The word yamm came into my mind since yamm means in it's root word:

Ya-Miim-Miim = sea, river, flood. To aim at getting, to intend, go towards, to have recourse to, to resort to, to head for, to be thrown in the river, purpose a thing, clean with dust or pure earth.

yamm n.m. 7:136, 20:39, 20:39, 20:78, 20:97, 28:7, 28:40, 51:40

tayammama vb. (5) impf. act. 2:267
impv. 4:43, 5:6

Lane's Lexicon, Volume 8, page: 318  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=ymm

Plus Allah (SWTAY) said he MARAJA(مرج) the bahrayni (لبحرين) meaning he mixed or merge the 2 bahr and he did say that he placed a barrier between where they do not TRANSGRESS, he didnt say that the don't mix, he just simply said only not TRANSGRESS.

The Sardar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2019, 10:26:13 AM »
So anyone would take a critical analysis on this? Because no one has taken a look right now. And also i notice Amar Khan (author of this article) is using traditionalist research and also Maurice Bucaille and he seems to claim that Maurice Bucaille is pseudoscience.

Mazhar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2019, 01:15:54 PM »
//Plus Allah (SWTAY) said he MARAJA(مرج) the bahrayni (لبحرين) meaning he mixed or merge the 2 bahr and he did say that he placed a barrier between where they do not TRANSGRESS, he didnt say that the don't mix, he just simply said only not TRANSGRESS.//

http://haqeeqat.pk/roots/(1361).htm

imrankhawaja

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2019, 06:58:30 PM »
Well the thing i don't know what to type......i know, it sounds a bit dumb since i am not that smart. :(

i ll make it easy for you,

for example if i want to study "oceanology/history/science/XYZ" when i was 15 i have to go to libraries for the best books in markets and most of the times i come back home with very less data...

now i dnt have to go libraries, i have access to different libraries and online books what i cant even imagine i can find in my local library backhome...


second step how i know what is best and what should i go for ?
when i was 15 i have to ask from expert like my uncles/professors/teachers/seniors/librarian..

now i dnt have to ask from them i have online encyclopedia/information with me what tell me what thing is worth reading..

same like you find dr kashif links/ ammar links/ flat earthers link why dnt you find the links from authorised scientists/historians ? by same method.  ;)

did you read how i know about the blunder of kamasutra?
who told me ?
how i find out he is stupid?
is it really hard ?

ok as far  i understand u r looking what  is the difference between heavy and light water ? (but i was telling you as a whole) as you requested to find out the mistakes from what that person claim.. by just taking one thing out of many in his articles... u can read my first reply again..

what is the difference between salty and sweet water?
what is the difference between river and sea water? for this information read some books from experts take  your time and then after having all information in hand then see what QURAN is saying..

after that go to how to study QURAN?
difference between what quran is saying vs what translator is  saying..?

STEP by STEP but at this specific case brother mazhar saved you from struggle already...  :D

GOOD luck

The Sardar

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Re: An Critic on Qur'anic Ayats
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2019, 11:25:30 AM »