Author Topic: How do you understand fasting  (Read 3521 times)

herbman

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 625
  • Karma +0/-0
Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2019, 04:10:51 AM »
about Zakariah from Was Zakariah the first man doing Sawm?

Dear all, Peace , Salam

To make it clear I used here the term sawm= to abstain, and more specifically abstention of talk as per 19:26 and abstain of sexual relation as per 2:187.

In the "Great Reading" (Al quran) Mary is mentioned as doing sawm of talk, this in in verse 19:26:

"So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man say `I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being.' "
فَكُلِي وَاشْرَبِي وَقَرِّي عَيْنًا ۖ فَإِمَّا تَرَيِنَّ مِنَ الْبَشَرِ أَحَدًا فَقُولِي إِنِّي نَذَرْتُ لِلرَّحْمَٰنِ صَوْمًا فَلَنْ أُكَلِّمَ الْيَوْمَ إِنْسِيًّا

Looking in the book about similar cases I found Zakarya in 3:41, 19:10
3:41
He said: "O my Lord! Give me a sign!" "Thy Sign" was the answer "shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three days but with signals. Then celebrate the praises of thy Lord again and again and glorify Him in the evening and in the morning."

19:10
(Zakariya) said "O my Lord! Give me a Sign." "Thy Sign", was the answer "shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three nights, although thou art not dumb."

In 19:10 Zakarya ask for a sign, and the answer is you shall not speak during 3 nights, and in 3:41 for 3 days, is this a SAWM?

Well if we take into account, "angels" come down to earth during "laylat al qadr" as per 97:4, we can assume, the event occurred during the night and more specifically during "laylat al qadr"!

My conclusion is Zakarya event was during laylat al qadr,  so during shahru ramadan (full moon), and he was "forced" not to speak, by definition of sawm given in 19:26 (with Mary).

Maybe one of the difference between Zakarya and Mary, is Mary could still speak but Zakarya was "forced" to be muted for 3 consecutive days and nights, this is important to understand 2:187!
So in "my" logic, the tradition came from Zakarya.

- So Zakarya was "praying" (doing salat) in the temple when came the "angels" to him, telling him a good news, you will have a child
- Zakarya answer after being astonished and maybe skeptical  :hypno: was "GIVE ME A SIGN"
- Allah answer is easy : "Thy Sign", was the answer "shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three nights, although thou art not dumb."

THIS BRING US TO 2:187

Permitted to you on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments. And ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah hath ordained for you and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are limits (set by) Allah; approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His signs to men that they may learn self-restraint.


1- Introduction (what are we talking about):
Permitted to you on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives
2-Explanation
They are your garments. And ye are their garments
3-Back ground (what was the situation before see 19:10)
Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you;
4-Permission given- new resolution from now on, eat and drink is another way to say "enjoy"
so now associate with them, and seek what Allah hath ordained for you and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread;
5-Conclusion and set the interdiction to not approach wives while doing saum
then complete your fast till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are limits (set by) Allah; approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His signs to men that they may learn self-restraint.

The abstention during night was initiated during ZAKARYA time and is now "abrogated" with 2:187.
So at least now we know why we have to do sawm during shahru ramadan, in commemoration of Zakarya event.

Peace

herbman

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 625
  • Karma +0/-0
Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2019, 04:12:50 AM »

imrankhawaja

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4322
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2019, 08:08:34 AM »
its TRUE & LOGICAL to solve the FIRST step before we advance to 2nd & 3rd STEP ...

one thing for sure the lunar calendar started by the figure ("omar" / ==>bukhari) is clearly in error due to the seasons switching from hot to cold... 

it also contradict the YEAR whats in the sight of QURAN is based on 12 months..
becoz after 3 consecutive years there is a full gap of 29-30 days what produce another month..

and then the amount of FASTING days from 3-10 or full month will come in third STEP.
in simple words its an (absolute/definite/confirmed) historical ERROR.

AND the FIRST step to see what is FAST and what WAS the FAST before us ?

my current understanding of first STEP is here..

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610670.msg424959#msg424959

imrankhawaja

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4322
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2019, 08:16:41 AM »
4-Permission given- new resolution from now on, eat and drink is another way to say "enjoy"

TRUE we can enjoy anything in general including (sex,food,drink,properties,money) ===> all these things are directly referenced from QURAN itself..


Mohammed.

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2019, 02:42:11 AM »
peace,

Feeding the poor (fidya) may be another option in such cases?(See reply #33 or #11)
And from 5:89, 3 sawm is equivalent to feeding 10 poor persons.

Regarding yuteeqoona (2:184)

Almost similar form of the root comes in 3:180,

“And let not those who are stingy/miserly with what God gave them from His grace/blessing think/suppose it is good/better for them, but it is bad/evil for them, they will be encircled/surrounded/burdened (with) what they were stingy/miser with it (on) the Resurrection Day…”

Therefore I consider the meaning for yuteeqoona as ‘to be able to do but find extremely hard and difficult to bear’ i.e. a kind of burden.
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]